Time for a History Lesson, Immigration Options

[PFC Mustangman]

The Roman Empire was inarguably the greatest civilization of antiquity.It took nearly a thousand years for the world to recover from the fall of the Roman Civilization.A fall that is traditionally dated A.D.476.The fall occurred for many reasons,but most of the direct blame lies in the migration and toleration of hostile Germanic Tribes out of Eastern Europe.These tribes penetrated the unsecured borders of the Roman Empire and settled deep within Roman lands.Over time,since the Romans felt that they could not successfully boot these invaders out,the Tribes were allowed to stay in the Empire.Many even joined the Roman Army and were given the authority (not always officially) to enforce their own laws and preserve their seperate cultures,and for a large part did not assimilate into the greater Roman Culture.By A.D.476,The Western half of the Empire was overrun by various Eastern Tribes and the land was Roman in name only.In that year,one of these Tribes,the Visigoths,sacked the Eternal City of Rome,a city which had not been touched by outside invaders for 800 years.Through there was not much left of the Western Empire by that point,it is the fall of the City of Rome to the Visigoths that has traditionally symbolized the destruction of the once great Roman Empire.In the end,the greatest civilization know to man was brought down by illegal immigrants that were granted amnesty.

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[Barkmann]

Thats funny, wasnt it the Gauls that sack Rome?

So I heard on the History channel...

[Jack]

so im gona guess you think the same will happen to the u.s of a

[-priority(+)target-]

Wow, I could go on and on. But, to get to the point, the fall of the empire was due to many complex issues that went unresolved, in some cases for centuries.

The US and Canada was built on the backs of immigrants, illegal and otherwise. Even my forefathers who fought in the american revolution were 'immigrants' and ultimately 'refugees' (evil as they were). If you look back in your own family tree I guarantee you are offspring of immigrants of "some description", good chances in the last 3-4 generations. You know what a WOP is don't you?

Blame the illegal immigrants. Yup, that guy make $2 an hour picking tomatoes, is the problem. No, its the guy that was a doctor in some other country, that is now working as a cabbie, stealing all those good cab driving jobs from American Doctors.

What I mean to say is fix the problems, don't blame the immigrants.

[Ghost Child]

The issue is not immigrants, but illegal immigrants. Supporters of amensty say that they are paying Social Security taxes that they will never receive. However, in order to pay SS tax, one must have a SS number. How do you get one? You can't if your not a citizen, you either have to steal it, or buy one that is forged.



There are some 400,000 illegals in our prisons. Are these the type of immigrants we want coming into the United States? The Democrates and Republicans believe that if they don't suck up to the illegals, then they will be branded as the party that is against immigration and will ultimately loose the vote power to stay in power. But what are the long term effects to the USA?

[UNDEAD 1]

coming from a floridian ,i have no problem with anyone moving here to have and pursue a greater life,i only wish everyone else pays their own way. right now ,in south florida , because we are so pc ,theres like 40 to 60 kids to a classroom and probably half are tax payers. i know i know ,the canadians get taxed more than we do BUT... my entire tax bill is mostly to schools (%90) and between my tax bill and low insurance ,these payments are more than my mortgage which is the reason for the stall in the real estate market here,not rates,not prices.



the fact is half the people are paying for all the services of the illegals . am i happy that they get full health care ,schooling ,language class , food stamps , money and free rent???? no ,especially when i make an above avrage salary and am barely afloat. i dont want my kid going to a public school here because imo they look like prisons and private schools start at $21,000. a year and you still have to teach in two languages. oh ,and get this ... now there seems to be a tax crisis so all services will be cut soon ,amongst these cuts are teachers,city workers ,police,fireman and emts , which means that im working my ass off for less police protection a shitty education for my kid and if i get hurt ill be lucky to get an ambulance.



sorry if i seem irate but i currently have all my properties for sale to move to a more stable state.this is a real problem and until you live in an area that is %40 illegal immagrants you really wouldnt see it.florida is now starting to get national attention as its really getting tuff here , i could only imagine what california is like.



This post has been edited by UNDEAD 1: 06/17/07 2:46pm

[pezking]

Some help, I'm not sure you're fully understanding the issues that some of have to deal with on the illegal immigration issue. I'm not against immigration at all, just the illegal immigrants. The immigrants that helped build this great country assymilated to the culture and took pride in their new start in the US. The ones that come here now just abuse and trash everything. So I guess the illegals here aren't responsible for the crime, the drugs, the gangs? I guess MS-13 (which is very active in my area) are really some rich white boys? So when my cousin had her baby, she was billed $28,000 when she left but the girl she shared a room with got it all for free. Who pays for her? The US taxpayer. That's why we're a bit pissed off. We're paying so illegal immigrants can get a free ride. They don't pay taxes, they don't contribute... well, yes, they can pick fruit and clean. Yes, I feel bad that there are some that are just trying to better their lives and family... but most of them in my area are just crooks that refuse to speak english. They cut up a little girl the other day, it was really sad. The police in the area are almost helpless cause they have no records of these people so it's hard to arrest them w/out ICE training. Bah, I could go on and on.

My solution, let them come in but take away all the free stuff and... and, if the parents are undocumented, then the new baby is too. None of this "born in America and you're an instant citizen" anymore. This will encourage them to contribute and become a part of our society instead of a burden.

[Barkmann]

Just come up here to Canada and get free health care, might as well everyone in the world does.

And my family tree is british who with the french came over here to Canada.



And to me, I think Canada should change there name to The New UN

[UNDEAD 1]

please dont buy into the fact "they all pick cotton,fruit and do labor jobs that no one wants either,theres alot of jobs these guys are doing such as waiters (which is getting cracked down on) landscapers ,roofers ,drywall , concrete etc and down here that is huuuuge money ,huge. infact i dont know of many lettuce fields in florida ,hehe. seriously ,dont make them pay a back bill ,get them registered and and get them paying and if you dont have a job ,no benefits !

[Genocide Junkie]

I can tell you in my area they are probably at least 20% maybe as much as 35-40% (no one knows) and as UNDEAD says there are lots of salt of the earth people here who cannot get the jobs they had roofing, construction, etc. etc. because the contractor can hire two Hispanics for what he had to pay Bubba. No doubt there's a reason the contractor hires them. They work HARD and cheap. Perhaps some of those people who lose those jobs will learn that first part. As it stands it puts another person out of work and you and I paying for their benefits etc. So problem compounded. Don't know the answer but I can assure you our government officials have long stopped trying to do what was right for us. On both sides it's about power and control. Screw the people.

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

please dont buy into the fact "they all pick cotton,fruit and do labor jobs that no one wants either,theres alot of jobs these guys are doing such as waiters (which is getting cracked down on) landscapers ,roofers ,drywall , concrete etc and down here that is huuuuge money ,huge. infact i dont know of many lettuce fields in florida ,hehe. seriously ,dont make them pay a back bill ,get them registered and and get them paying and if you dont have a job ,no benefits !

I'm not American, so correct this if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be the point of the Amnesty? To make them "legal" so they can be accounted for and pay their taxes, and claim their legit benefits?

Anyway, I live in a part of Canada that is pretty much isolated from all this stuff. White and Christian sums up about 99+% of the population. So I admit, I don't know what it's like. I do know that it is nice that you'll never meet anyone who doesn't understand the language perfectly.

[PFC Mustangman]

check out www.infowars.com,this is Alex Jones web site or michal
savage.com thanks, the war is on.

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

I can tell you in my area they are probably at least 20% maybe as much as 35-40% (no one knows) and as UNDEAD says there are lots of salt of the earth people here who cannot get the jobs they had roofing, construction, etc. etc. because the contractor can hire two Hispanics for what he had to pay Bubba. No doubt there's a reason the contractor hires them. They work HARD and cheap. Perhaps some of those people who lose those jobs will learn that first part. As it stands it puts another person out of work and you and I paying for their benefits etc. So problem compounded. Don't know the answer but I can assure you our government officials have long stopped trying to do what was right for us. On both sides it's about power and control. Screw the people.

Just to add to it all though, remember how complex this all is. So Bubba loses his job, two Mexican's work hard and cheap, and "Frank" gets the addition to his house built for $20,000 less, while "Ralph", the owner of the contracting company also scoops up and extra $5,000 profit for every home he builds.

Probably no one here is a "Mexican", a few here might be "Bubba's", many are "Frank's" (people looking for a cheap house or cheap renovations), and there may even be a "Ralph" or two. Point is, the winners and losers in tis game are varied and complex.

[UNDEAD 1]

alright ,forget what youve seen and heard about the mexicans in califoria who work on lettuce fields .



now think of florida,lousiana , texas etc.. who after hurricanes didnt have enough blue cllar workers to go around so unlicensed illegal aliens are making but loads of money. i say get em all registered so they can contribute but because half the country doesnt have this problem ,for instance nebraska these laws are not getting into place.



another thing i found very interesting and was one of the problems for all of us down here after the hurricanse was the fact that ,if your a builder your were ALLOWED legally to have a certain percentage of imagrants to work for you,they call it helping. let me give you a for instance, the builder who was repairing my home had a work force of 41 illegal imagrants that were allowed to come here and given green cards ,TAX FREE, to work for this company or any of the other builders ,theres 1000s of builders . right after wilma ,we didnt get any federal aid because they called it a cat 1 (even though winds were in the 120s) and a law was passed about the illegal workers ,so they werent able to work for these companies so everyone was crippled down here with no power or aid and alot of companies with a quater of their staff for awhile , i still see blue tarps on roofs today. the thing is ,all the illegals are still here though and formed their own companies (handyman) services and are sooo busy they dont even take calls.

the problem is if they didnt have this retarded program that basicly lets the builder get a bunch of slaves to save money and had normal workers it wouldnt have been half as bad and everyone wouldve made a bunch of money.even though a builder STATES he has 41 illegals doesnt mean he doesnt have 120 .



the main problem with non tax payers is this --schooling . the city can only afford to pay for a certain amount of teachers but theres more than 30 kids to a class and most dont speak the language or barley (there not going to deny anyone school right?) so it slows down all the other kids and it has put florida amongst the worst in the country in test scoring. question,have you every tried to controll 35 kids at once? would you do it for 30 a year?



second is health care , most cant even afford to have it but they get full benefits. i for one am not against anyone coming here to work,hell im a%100 irish and my family came here off the boat . the irish are picture perfect to the modern day illegal problem except our government had programs to get them working so they could pay taxes.

and the answer to your question mod is if they are not licensed and not aquiring permits the work isnt getting done right,thus the tax payer is the victim because theres codes here now for anything built because of these storms and all the half ass work comes down every hurricane and the insurance cos have to put money out for it again.

This post has been edited by UNDEAD 1: 06/18/07 4:29pm

[pezking]

An old friend of mine was visiting from Boston a few weeks ago and told me that the illegal immigration up there is all Irish. He said you can't even get through certain parts of town because of them.

Good story;

I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.

But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tiles, the chairs, the table... everywhere.

Then some of the birds turned mean: They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.

After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio. Soon, the back yard was like it used to be... quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.

Now let's see... our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen. Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor; your child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English; Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than "Old Glory" are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.

Maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder.