Barbarossa II - Smolensk Beta 1 Options

[Slyk]

First off let me thank you guys for enjoying and playing the crap out of 'Barbarossa'. I've stopped by the servers a few times and I know quite a few of our After-Hourz regulars slut their way over here now and then. One comment I have though is on the tanks. Running them at stock reload times really really diminishes the effectiveness of the BT7 and overpowers the KV1. We run slightly modded times at AHz that gives the BT a faster reload rate of about 35% or so over the Panzers. Slowing down the KV makes it more important to have some support infantry or BTs with it. And overall it adds a new angle on gameplay.

Anyway. I really like this article. Very well done. Lots of great observations and smart, well thought out points. Don't find that so much on forums! haha I wanted to take a few minutes to introduce the followup NOT SEQUEL map to 'Barb'. The new one will be similar in feel, but play differently for sure. I am just getting internal Alpha testing started and hope to have a public beta1 in less than 10 days. Only BAS, CNQ and CTF will be featured at in the first beta. You will have to deal with a lot more open space and far less effective pak guns for bombardment. I know that will annoy half the crowd, but... well, here is a copy/paste of the latest info...

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As we approach internal testing time, I thought it was time to get some in-game map images up so that you can have a perspective of the map.

**NOTE** There are a LOT of tree and bush models, but I chose to leave them turned 'off' for these pics. There is much more cover than appears here and more on the way as I mod the map...what you see now may be different in four hours!

The first one is looking NE from the southwest corner of the map. The main German spawn region for Base and CNQ is in the lower-left part of the map around the farm buildings. Going toward the right you find five small houses and a stone bridge over a modest size stream (CNQ objective). Just up in the picture is a trench works with a concrete AT bunker and 45mm gun. Beyond this section you see the larger village with several small fields around it and a dominating church with tower. Further right over the next stream is a steep ridge with the pillaged 'Barb' trench system. Behind this a thick forest sloping down toward the rail depot and another sizable village and fields.




The second image is a top-down look at the entire map. This image will be included in the testing files. Note the map key at the upper right.

[ScrapyardBob]

After a bit of play...

- Jeep respawns should definitely be as short as possible. I don't know if the AHz forums are setup to auto-destroy jeeps that are out-of-place like they are on the MOB forums, but on a big map, jeeps are critical for getting around. If/when MOB sets up a Smolensk server, it's something to keep in mind.

(On the server I used to help admin, we'd bump the respawn times for tanks up to a minute or two but we'd always leave jeep respawn at the minimum possible.)

- Darn huge map... did I mention that it's a large map?

- Spawning near Russian #3 is a pain. You're boxed in a bit and there's not much in the way of vehicles. Russian #1 avoids that problem because you can flee into the houses / tunnels. Maybe a trench line / trees / bushes / hay bales at the top of the hill between R3 and G3. Something for the russians to rally to when trying to defend R3.

- German 3 is an interesting spot. Maybe a little thick on the bushes The terrain up there could use more up/down dips (i.e. "tank scrapes"). Hopefully enough little dips and bumps that you can positiion 4 tanks up there in hull-down positions.

- Some discoloration on ground where map walls have moved. One spot is near the swamp the other is between G3 and the german spawn (on the spawn side of a hill by the field).

- Some of the long, straight map walls (i.e. near the swamp and other spots) could stand to be broken up, either with terrain, rocks, or simply some artistic tree placement at varying distances from the walls. Basically to make it not so obvious that it's a straight wall of trees.

- There's a window in one of the german spawn buildings (I think the one with the halftrack) that overlooks the map edge. Bit silly as nobody can ever walk back there behind that part of the building. (Or not... it's an artisitic choice.)

(some of these comments are from memory)

- The pillowbox pak cannon can hit 2 of the 3 german bases. Maybe the G3 base needs to be moved to the lee side of the slope away from the pak. I'm not sure about G2, but it could probably be shifted back a bit towards the field to get out of view of that pak.

- The pillowbox pak is going to be a nasty piece of hardware. Especially once you add some hay bales / logs / ground cover to that trench system. I think the germans are going to spend a lot of blood keeping that gun suppressed.

- Most ridge lines should probably have at least some sort of trees / bushes to obscure the sight lines. Basically infantry should be able to cross the ridge on one side or the other without being silhouetted. It wouldn't have to straddle the entire ridge line, just one end or the other of a particular opening.

- Even better if you can tweak the mesh slightly on ridges to give hull-down positions for tanks in places. (The slope at the north pass by Russian #1 on the Barbarossa map is a good example, as is the german egress by the german middle pak gun on the Barbarossa map. Nothing steep, just enough of a rise/fall that you can peek over and fire downrange.)

- The russian trench system near the russian spawn hill where the KV1 spawns. If you slip the KV1 into one of the other tank positions, there are some positions where you can't get the tank out of. The ground in those positions needs to be raised a few units so it's the same depth as the main tank position. That way if you decide to put a tank in those spots you can get the tank back out.

- The russian pak gun near the swamp, there's an odd texture on the wall (too dark).

- The bullrushes are great. I think that flank is going to be a prime infantry sneaking spot with enough ground cover and trees.

- What happens if all the russians take one step back (spawning in the rail yard) and all the russian bases also take one step back? R3 could end up in the field near the town. R2 could move to the hill where the russians currently spawn. R1 could stay just about where it is.

- Bit difficult at times to find satches / anti-tank weaponry. In one of the tunnel systems (maybe the one at the russian spawn? or maybe at R1?) I got an icon but couldn't see the anti-tank ammo box.

[Slyk]

After a bit of play...

- Jeep respawns should definitely be as short as possible. I don't know if the AHz forums are setup to auto-destroy jeeps that are out-of-place like they are on the MOB forums, but on a big map, jeeps are critical for getting around. If/when MOB sets up a Smolensk server, it's something to keep in mind. AHz is stock, they blow and respawn per stock settings as far as I remember...but they do self-explode. I usually destroy any of my teams as I pass, when practical. Tanks respawn around :45 and you can't be 'in' their spawn position or they don't.... still educating some guys on that.

(On the server I used to help admin, we'd bump the respawn times for tanks up to a minute or two but we'd always leave jeep respawn at the minimum possible.)

- Darn huge map... did I mention that it's a large map? hahha Yes you did and not really.

- Spawning near Russian #3 is a pain. You're boxed in a bit and there's not much in the way of vehicles. Russian #1 avoids that problem because you can flee into the houses / tunnels. Maybe a trench line / trees / bushes / hay bales at the top of the hill between R3 and G3. Something for the russians to rally to when trying to defend R3. Had an idea for a destroyed house at the crest of the hill west of there. Thinking it is a good idea again.

- German 3 is an interesting spot. Maybe a little thick on the bushes The terrain up there could use more up/down dips (i.e. "tank scrapes"). Hopefully enough little dips and bumps that you can positiion 4 tanks up there in hull-down positions. Maybe. At this point I don't think I can add more complex terrain. Removing a chuck to replace with a scuplted one at this point will most likely error in compile. As soon as I can get a working cattail model, I will get hundreds of 'points' back.

- Some discoloration on ground where map walls have moved. One spot is near the swamp the other is between G3 and the german spawn (on the spawn side of a hill by the field). Not sure what that is. Terrain is fine. Time to delete and remake it. I've spent a lot of time trying to adjust that.

- Some of the long, straight map walls (i.e. near the swamp and other spots) could stand to be broken up, either with terrain, rocks, or simply some artistic tree placement at varying distances from the walls. Basically to make it not so obvious that it's a straight wall of trees. Yep. Noticed that in the swamp. Sometimes you just forget on a big map where all those spots are.

- There's a window in one of the german spawn buildings (I think the one with the halftrack) that overlooks the map edge. Bit silly as nobody can ever walk back there behind that part of the building. (Or not... it's an artisitic choice.) Artistic choice. Why not have some ambient areas. I would like to do a lot more 'off map' stuff like a few spots in 'Barb', but resources....

(some of these comments are from memory)

- The pillowbox pak cannon can hit 2 of the 3 german bases. Maybe the G3 base needs to be moved to the lee side of the slope away from the pak. I'm not sure about G2, but it could probably be shifted back a bit towards the field to get out of view of that pak. Not sure what to do with this position for BAS. We debated removing it for BAS mode and decided to leave it for beta1 and watch commentary. It is a strong position, but the Germans should be able to minimize it's impact with a good sniper. More cover in the 'final' should help counter that position. Also, I could reduce the traverse of the gun about 5 degrees and that should clear G3 from it's view. I mainly want it to cover the stone bridge anyway.

- The pillowbox pak is going to be a nasty piece of hardware. Especially once you add some hay bales / logs / ground cover to that trench system. I think the germans are going to spend a lot of blood keeping that gun suppressed. Thought of doing head-logs here. No final decision. Original plan was an open/wooded ridge to the west over which the Germans would have to push through that trench works.... but not to be with the map layout... sad. That would be some cool combat. Next map.

- Most ridge lines should probably have at least some sort of trees / bushes to obscure the sight lines. Basically infantry should be able to cross the ridge on one side or the other without being silhouetted. It wouldn't have to straddle the entire ridge line, just one end or the other of a particular opening. Point noted.

- Even better if you can tweak the mesh slightly on ridges to give hull-down positions for tanks in places. (The slope at the north pass by Russian #1 on the Barbarossa map is a good example, as is the german egress by the german middle pak gun on the Barbarossa map. Nothing steep, just enough of a rise/fall that you can peek over and fire downrange.) Victim of how it fell together. I didn't set out this time making those positions as in Barb. I will revisit some spots and see what can be done.

- The russian trench system near the russian spawn hill where the KV1 spawns. If you slip the KV1 into one of the other tank positions, there are some positions where you can't get the tank out of. The ground in those positions needs to be raised a few units so it's the same depth as the main tank position. That way if you decide to put a tank in those spots you can get the tank back out. Noted. I'll clip the sides.

- The russian pak gun near the swamp, there's an odd texture on the wall (too dark). Funky terrain mesh. They don't like to be vertical. I intended to cover that will logs, forgot...

- The bullrushes are great. I think that flank is going to be a prime infantry sneaking spot with enough ground cover and trees. See my cattails references. I would like that area to be 2x as thick. FPS are solid in there so it should improve. I would like to see nasty combat down there and think it will come along as people learn the map. I personally prefer to attack that way regardless of what team I am on and whatever gametype.

- What happens if all the russians take one step back (spawning in the rail yard) and all the russian bases also take one step back? R3 could end up in the field near the town. R2 could move to the hill where the russians currently spawn. R1 could stay just about where it is. Hmmm. Thought about. Really. The issue is time. How long from point A to B for both teams. I tried to space out per Barb. I basically ran on foot from spawn to team base then from spawn to enemy base. Then did it again via jeep. Also measured out in Barb the distances in straight lines and transferred those locations. I like your suggestions but the map would be 20% bigger in BAS and I don't know if that is a good thing. The best battles now are over the #2s.

- Bit difficult at times to find satches / anti-tank weaponry. In one of the tunnel systems (maybe the one at the russian spawn? or maybe at R1?) I got an icon but couldn't see the anti-tank ammo box.

I will double-check, but there are a lot around. A couple satchels are problematic though and I dont' know why. I will see about adding more.