Smolensk balanced? Options

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

Just a question for admins. Are you finding that the Smolensk map is properly balanced? I wish there was a stat to see what the overall score was (base kills) between German versus Russian, and actuall victories (all three bases blown by one team). I assume admins have access to such a stat, and hoping they'll share it.

I haven't played that much, but I'd guess if there was a "balance" issue, it would be the Germans that have the advantage. Not sure if others would agree. I just find the Russian spawn to be so far from their bases, and 2 is so exposed, 1 has that backway in for the Germans through the tunnels, and well, you can almost forget about 3!!!

The big German weakness as I see it is how easy it can be to get to their main spawn and steal their tanks and make life miserable there for them, and how hard it is for them to come back and retake it since it is so open. Still, I think life is easier for them to defend bases, especially when falling back in a hurry.

I also get the impression draws are going to be less than Barbarossa. With the map so wide open and 3 ways to most places, plus spawn points that aren't that close to any base, throwing up a wall of defence will be difficult.

Anyway, don't get me wrong. I LOVE this new map! But just wondering if people are monitoring the balance issue, or has this already been tested and is this a FINAL version with no more tweaks?

MoD

[Slyk]

Good topic. Initially, I thought there may be balance issues, but we played the life out of the map in alpha/beta testing and really it's a 52-48% kind of thing at worst. Two keys: DEFENSE by smart players at vital locations at the right times and STRATEGIC OFFENSE...which is a funny phrase. Let's take these one at a time.

DEFENSE: The map favors the defender in every gametype but that does not guarantee the defenders will win, even with active offensive actions. Bob has analyzed the map hard and you should read up on his thesis. The key to defense is knowing the map foremost. Next is using the knowledge to plot your defensive strengths and weaknesses. The swamp is a virtual highway for unwanted surprises. Both teams need to control that avenue to guard their southern flanks. A constant watch and reinforcement plan is called for. The north flanks are the same. Positioned armor, infantry with rockets, pak guns in action. Use terrain to your advantage when possible. The north is hardest for both teams to guard and usually the easiest to be pushed out of. Defense of the middle #2 bases to me, is the easiest. If there is active/vocal defense on the flanks, middle defenders should always be aware of incoming attackers. The Russians should never loose their #2. Too much cover to ambush attackers, fairly close spawn, and overlooking high ground. Loss of #2 is due to poor defense and no support. The Germans have a little tougher time, but usually fall victim to being flanked and seldom loose their #2 to straight up the gut attacks. Nor should they... that pak and one tank should shut down the middle route every time. Add a foot troop or two in the houses by the bridge and forget about coming that way.

STRATEGIC OFFENSE: I think in general you plan according to numbers. You need to know how many bodies you've got and dedicate some to defensive roles. After that, you trust the defense to hold out while you strike in force at one enemy base at a time. A coordinated team effort with a balance of armor and infantry can steamroll an opponent in under 10 minutes. Sporatic local actions might do some damage but tends to only cause a lot of "oh my god my pants are on fire" moments that are quickly brought under control. Dedicate some defenders. Position armor or infantry/rockets at choke points to slow down or bleed out an attack. Pick a route and go in force. Hit the enemy hard, roll them up, blow that base top, plant the bomb and cover it. By doing this you not only panic the defenders, you force them often times either into watering down their attack by diverting to counter-attack that usually results in you chewing them up piecemeal as they come at you in 1s and 2s; or they ignore you and press forward while you systematically wipe their bases from the map, mangling their spawn exits on the way and generally giving them all a bad attitude.

It is about teamwork and self-sacrifice. Glory pigs out for high scores at any cost are worthless by most standards. Someone needs to stay behind, man a pak gun, horde rockets, snipe-camp and generally throw themselves under the tank treads now and then to slow down the enemy. You get some fanatical defenders who go back spawn after spawn like a starved savage looking at Heide Klum tied to a pair of palm trees, and you'll win more than you loose.

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

[quote name='Slyk' date='02/20/06 12:49pm' post='95496'] Good topic. Initially, I thought there may be balance issues, but we played the life out of the map in alpha/beta testing and really it's a 52-48% kind of thing at worst. Two keys: DEFENSE by smart players at vital locations at the right times and STRATEGIC OFFENSE...which is a funny phrase. Let's take these one at a time.



(Points snipped...look up in thread his points)



Your points about defence and strategy are excellent EXCEPT for one thing. Who does this stuff? Are there lots of people on ventrilo, because otherwise, I never see this huge strategy stuff be implemented except by chance. For example, IF you get a few tanks moving together, great, but I never see it planned, organzied, then implemented. If you had 6 people on defence at all positions at all times that'd be great too I suppose, but I never see it. Usually when I type in a few strategy ideas 95% of the time I get two responses...

1. "No sir!"

2. Nothing

For example, a few times in Barbossa in extremely long, no time limit games when everyone was stuck I tried several times to get people to move tanks to gather at our last remaining base, then push forward. No matter that we'd been stuck for almost 2 hours. No one listened, and no one gathered at the base (there was one guy on D). OK, that's fine. I don't bother trying that stuff anymore. I use quick commands like "fall back", "Move in", "attack right flank" and "attack left flank" only in the hope that perhaps one or two people might join in the manoveur, but generally I know most people are just trying to stay alive, move to one objective...defence, offence, protect one area...without dying, and if they meet up with someone going to the same are then great.


Another example...every time I start Barbossa on German I'd say "all to 3", or "go to 3" "take 3 first" etc. Of course, if someone wants to stay back, great, but I'm speaking to those in tanks moving forward. And on those occasions where our push down the right flank works and we defeat the enemy tanks and can move in on three, guess what happens 75% of the time. Over half the tanks stop, blow the top off two, and a lot of times someone tries and plant it! Now, this isn't great stategy, but I understand what is going on. Those who don't play all the time shoot the easy base because they can without getting killed. The map is always has plenty of n00bs, or so-so players who would be happy to plant an easy base rather than risk death or hard manoveurs. I understand that. I was a n00b once too, and a crappy player also. However, the point is, strategic manoveurs rarely happens except amongst small groups. Two or 3 guys manage to work well together occasionally, either on defence for one particular base, or on a nice assult. Personally, I'm just very happy when I pull up to a tank on a jeep where I have a passenger, and my passenger had the sense to grab a rocket launcher and we give it the ol' "1,2" rocket blast for the kill! IMO, what gets the job done best isn't master strategy as much as a few good players who can implement a plan without even discussing it.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback. If someone wants to msg me during games to try and pull something "smart" off I'll gladly try and help if I can. Of course, just trying to surivive is hard enough sometimes, so on the field of battle, we all have to realize that the best laid plans often quickly go awry!

Oh, and back to the balance issue. Even if it is 48/52, I wonder if one more jeep at spawn for that 48% team might be all that is needed to get this number as close as possible?

And one more question for Slyk. Did you make Barbarossa? My question is that I notice in the vehicle description it talks about an armoured car. Is that really in there? If so, how come it isn't on the MOB Base Assult maps? Thanks. Great maps btw. I'm glad the balance issue is so small. I felt it was probably worse than that.

MoD