Toronto terror 'plot'... 6pak - comments?, Large terror cell recently busted Options

[Silver]

yeah but in england they dont have the violence (not as many guns <I think>) that we do in the states... or prov. that border the US... like ontario etc...

Cops here are VERY trigger happy, shooting kids and their own on subways etc...

IF i get on the subway and a turban wearing mofo pulls a gun i will either:
A: shit myself
B: get him if I can! hell I figure im dead anyways!

uniforms are a dime a dozen up here anyone could pretend to be a police officer...

[Stickman]

Just to clarify something here... Sikhs wear turbans, not muslims.

To say that it is a double standard for a Canadian sikh cop to want to wear a turban while radical muslims want to resist western influence is incorrect on several levels.

Radical mulsims want to live in a world where everyone is forced to conform to the rules they establish. Some of you seem to be suggesting the same thing... just with "our" rules, rathe thasn "theirs".

We live in a free society; one that respects minorities. That's supposed to be important to us. Forcing minorities to conform to "our ways" as revenge for the same behaviour by radical muslims is an assault on our freedoms, as well as being pointless.

[Wotansvolk]

Hey M.Stickman, you're a lot on "freesociety" stuff but always remember the freedom of one stops where the freedom of others start. Now you're saying that if many people need to pray 5 times a day we should provide them a place in our school for them to pray? Since i was a kid their always been crucifix in classroom, for catholic it's a kind of way to "protect" the place and the people inside. How come in the last years we had to take out all the crucifix from the classroom for respect to other religious belief?

Another thing in France they have done what we are doing here, accept everybody, but they start doing it long before us....now they have freakin problems with arab and algerian, not every arab and algerian but a lot of them .They regroup in the "cité" wich are big appartment block and they make their laws there they don't want to work, ok yeah some of them want to work but those who don't want make them a bad reputation so now they can't ghet a job! And you've seen what happen last summer there with the riot and all that!! Don't ask yourself why France did'nt get involved in the Afghan and Iraq conflict there's too much of them living in France!!

I'm not saying stop immigration , i say let the good people in, people that want to invest here,people that have professional expertise....well people that can be a plus to our society and with the money you make with thios, put it in the family to push your citizen to make more babys.

As for the turban in work environement, i say if every average people need to dress all the same for that work well the sikh would need to take off is turban,it's not like is going to die!! I'll give you an exemple in montreal port trucks driver have to put a safety helmet when they are within the port, well truck driver with turban(there's a lot of them) cannot put the helmet on cause of the turban, if an accident happens what would the insurance do. There's law and you have to comply with it, in the '50' and 60's religion where making the laws here but not anymore.People need to wake up i'm freakin tired of radical belief in religion....even if you pray everyday ....you will die!! Religion have been created cause people were afraid of the unknown and religion give them a unrationnal reason to explain the unknown.God is dead my friend's.

Muslim leader are on a mission to convert the world to their religion...i'll try to find the article.I've seen on tv a couples of month ago, a broadcast in Africa they were talking about school that have been build there by catholic missionaries.....but now for every catholic school wich teach ,math,writting,reading...there's like 3 coranic school finance by arab millionaire....and you know what you learn in a coranic school?? Yeah you learn the Coran ......that's all kid have chain to their legs and get the whip if they don't study....that's how you raise people to become human bomb!!

I tell you i don't want to take the chance to have people like that in my country, i know that some muslim are pretty good person. But they will need to make a clean up in their own religion, call the police when a Iman is making speech of hate and violence the samthing with believer with that kind of thought...and will kick them out!!

The only thing i want to say is that you're never too carefull, we have to be pro-active not retro-active i don't want my governement to take decision once radical believer have bombed my country or beheaded my fellow citizen. I want them to act before that! That's were my freedom start and where the freedom of radical believer ends!!!

Never forget that everything theoric is uthopic, governement wheter it's Democratic,socialist,communism don't exist...you think you live in democracy...lololol So to say that we are a free country is false...ok we got more liberty than other country but you're not totally free. To say that we have to tolerate everybody and that we love them all, and that nothing bad will happen ....that's uthopia in french is "Pensée Magique" magical thinking eveybody is good and kind!! Bull Shit!!

[Hellfighter]

A]Hey M.Stickman, you're a lot on "freesociety" stuff but always remember the freedom of one stops where the freedom of others start. Now you're saying that if many people need to pray 5 times a day we should provide them a place in our school for them to pray? Since i was a kid their always been crucifix in classroom, for catholic it's a kind of way to "protect" the place and the people inside. How come in the last years we had to take out all the crucifix from the classroom for respect to other religious belief?

B] France did'nt get involved in the Afghan and Iraq conflict there's too much of them living in France!!

C]i say let the good people in, people that want to invest here,people that have professional expertise...

D]As for the turban in work environement, i say if every average people need to dress all the same for that work well the sikh would need to take off is turban,it's not like is going to die!!

E]Muslim leader are on a mission to convert the world to their religion...

Z]I tell you i don't want to take the chance to have people like that in my country, i know that some muslim are pretty good person. But they will need to make a clean up in their own religion, call the police when a Iman is making speech of hate and violence the samthing with believer with that kind of thought...and will kick them out!!

F]The only thing i want to say is that you're never too carefull, we have to be pro-active not retro-active i don't want my governement to take decision once radical believer have bombed my country or beheaded my fellow citizen. I want them to act before that! That's were my freedom start and where the freedom of radical believer ends!!!

G]Never forget that everything theoric is uthopic, governement wheter it's Democratic,socialist,communism don't exist...you think you live in democracy...lololol So to say that we are a free country is false...ok we got more liberty than other country but you're not totally free. To say that we have to tolerate everybody and that we love them all, and that nothing bad will happen ....that's uthopia in french is "Pensée Magique" magical thinking eveybody is good and kind!! Bull Shit!!

A]Regarding the classroom issue why are you saying its the Muslims doing... they made a demand for it from the local politicians... don't blame them if the local politicians give them the right and deny the right for crucifixes in a classroom... the Christian kids could demand a crucifix and bible thumping room!

B]What's "too many of them living in France"? It was ok when France drafted hundreds of thousands of North and West Africans to fight and die on French/European soil in WW1 and WW2 and various colonial Wars.

C]Unless your familiar with how immigration works there's no telling who IS good and who IS bad, let alone not knowing if they'll turn out to be bad apples later. The hard working middle class wanna-be immigrants have the hardest time of all getting let in unless sponsored. Just letting in Elite immigrants is plain cheesy and just asking to invite massive corruption.

D]Do you have a coronary seeing someone wearing a turban at work! Why do people need to take off everyday attire because it symbolises an association you've seemingly conjured up in your mind that panics you!? I had a teacher who was Sikh in England when I was 10. He was the humblest and 'coolest' teacher I and my chums remembered... just how he treated us like he was our uncle made him much loved -there was no fixations on turbans or mocking it. Personally I don't care if people want to go nuts in religion or cod or whatever as long as they aren't affecting my liberties. Folks believing in religion is more complex; I'll argue that rather than a fear of unknown [perhaps some born-agains fall in this category], more often than not religion is a learned habit.

E]Christianity is on the same mission too..... If you mean Islamic extremists, that's a different picture than a typical Muslim leader wishing to spread Islam. I have alot of Muslim friends and they pray but otherwise joke and worry the same as my non-muslim friends, and the muslim gals I know are educated, and many are wild+sexy [ok, so you can't see them in mini-skirts but gorgeous still] and ... the picture you paint of them as a massive generation of ticking time-bombs is wildly distorted. That's not the majority -which you know since you live in Montreal.

Z] I agree...

F]Where I disagree with you is you seemingly wanting to blow away entire nations to get a minority of psycopaths. That would include taking out families and friends of my peace loving Muslim friends I have in Canada that detest extremists / aka psycopaths that are bringing grief and destruction to their lands, not to mention their attempt to wipe out the Iraqi police recruits valiantly risking it all to bring some kind of stability in their ravaged country. So as you can see I'm not one to let somewhat inciteful commentary go unchallenged if it involves merging innocents with whackos along the lines of 'guilt by association'.

G]Democracy is what it is... everyone in it knows it's not perfect but its the 'best' system permitting liberties. A system with total liberties would likely resemble Anarchy! What Canada is doing generally seems to be is like when stepping in something squishy we look at what was stepped in and wipe it off in a rational manner rather than liking the feeling of it and dancing around in it mindlessly.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 06/19/06 2:24am

[Wotansvolk]

[quote name='Hellfighter' date='06/19/06 3:14am' post='114482'] [quote post='114390' date='06/18/06 3:44pm' name='Wotansvolk']
[/color]

[quote/] [color=#FFFF66]A]Regarding the classroom issue why are you saying its the Muslims doing... they made a demand for it from the local politicians... don't blame them if the local politicians give them the right and deny the right for crucifixes in a classroom... the Christian kids could demand a crucifix and bible thumping room!

B]What's "too many of them living in France"? It was ok when France drafted hundreds of thousands of North and West Africans to fight and die on French/European soil in WW1 and WW2 and various colonial Wars.

C]Unless your familiar with how immigration works there's no telling who IS good and who IS bad, let alone not knowing if they'll turn out to be bad apples later. The hard working middle class wanna-be immigrants have the hardest time of all getting let in unless sponsored. Just letting in Elite immigrants is plain cheesy and just asking to invite massive corruption.

D]Do you have a coronary seeing someone wearing a turban at work! Why do people need to take off everyday attire because it symbolises an association you've seemingly conjured up in your mind that panics you!? I had a teacher who was Sikh in England when I was 10. He was the humblest and 'coolest' teacher I and my chums remembered... just how he treated us like he was our uncle made him much loved -there was no fixations on turbans or mocking it. Personally I don't care if people want to go nuts in religion or cod or whatever as long as they aren't affecting my liberties. Folks believing in religion is more complex; I'll argue that rather than a fear of unknown [perhaps some born-agains fall in this category], more often than not religion is a learned habit.

E]Christianity is on the same mission too..... If you mean Islamic extremists, that's a different picture than a typical Muslim leader wishing to spread Islam. I have alot of Muslim friends and they pray but otherwise joke and worry the same as my non-muslim friends, and the muslim gals I know are educated, and many are wild+sexy [ok, so you can't see them in mini-skirts but gorgeous still] and ... the picture you paint of them as a massive generation of ticking time-bombs is wildly distorted. That's not the majority -which you know since you live in Montreal.

Z] I agree...

F]Where I disagree with you is you seemingly wanting to blow away entire nations to get a minority of psycopaths. That would include taking out families and friends of my peace loving Muslim friends I have in Canada that detest extremists / aka psycopaths that are bringing grief and destruction to their lands, not to mention their attempt to wipe out the Iraqi police recruits valiantly risking it all to bring some kind of stability in their ravaged country. So as you can see I'm not one to let somewhat inciteful commentary go unchallenged if it involves merging innocents with whackos along the lines of 'guilt by association'.

G]Democracy is what it is... everyone in it knows it's not perfect but its the 'best' system permitting liberties. A system with total liberties would likely resemble Anarchy! What Canada is doing generally seems to be is like when stepping in something squishy we look at what was stepped in and wipe it off in a rational manner rather than liking the feeling of it and dancing around in it mindlessly.
[/quote]

I like having good discussion like that chummy Hellfighter and your a pro at quoting!!lol

1st: I don't blame the muslim for taking out the crucifix from classroom i know it have nothing to do with them all i am saying is that we have taken out our religion from the school but we are bringing another religion in those same school!|

2nd: I have nothing against people wearing turban i'm saying in the port what would happen if one of them got it on the head by something....what will happen with insurance will they get a favor treatment?

Ok for point B i don't know enough about that history ...but what i know is that they have a lot of problem with arab and algerian!

3rd: Yeah christian were doing the same thing years ago! As for the time bomb kids it's in africa you should have seen that broadcast it was crazy it's total brainwashing!

I'll continue later have to get back to work i'll try to find that broadcast for you!
C ya buddy!!



This post has been edited by Wotansvolk: 06/19/06 8:51am

[Hellfighter]

.......
I'll continue later have to get back to work i'll try to find that broadcast for you!
C ya buddy!!

Geezus!!! I'm trying hard to bore you into submission mon chum... you're a tough cookie lol
Arab/Algerian>north Africa; many of whose vets were in the Fench Army at the times I mentioned. I have no sympathy for anyone trying to smash away at a progressive free thinking society regardless if they are from arab/radical muslim/neo christian...no-one... so I'm all in favour of authorities going ballistic to root out the s--t disturber ring leaders but not cast a dragnet that sweeps up innocents and possibly provokes their alienation and thus be potential trouble later on..
I don't doubt you on point 3.... Those poor kids getting messed up like that.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 06/19/06 9:03am

[Wotansvolk]

Here's some link about those Koranic school called Madrasa:

http://islam-watch.org/SujitDas/Madrasa.htm

Madrasa paid by saudis:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004761.php




This post has been edited by Wotansvolk: 06/19/06 1:58pm

[Hellfighter]

Here's some link about those Koranic school called Madrasa:

Beasts like that aren't teachers... they are megalomaniacs and psycopaths masquerading as on a 'just' mission. The more followers they brainwash, the more absolute power is yielded to them -ugly pyramid scheme of sorts. 'Sharia' is utter evil to me and I'm all for beating its ugly head into guacemole wherever its raised, yes- even here too Wot .


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 06/19/06 4:49pm

[Oh You]

Okay, to go down a similar list as Hell (just assume the top one is A and so forth):

First off, having a seperate room for praying to a non-christian diety is not in anyway the same as having latin crosses in every classroom. If they requested a seperate area, and were then granted one, than so to should catholics. If they deny you that, you have an issue, but otherwise, they are different issues.

No opinion, Canada didn't get involved in Iraq either. (The WMDs are still have their pictures on milk cartons.)

I'm sure the government would love to here your suggestions on how to screen the good people from the bad ones. They already screen for people who first off have money, then education, then relatives already in the country.

Most major religions are on a quest to convery people to their faith. Christianity is probably the worst violator.

I really don't like how you said, "I know that some muslims are pretty good..." I think it should go more like, "I know that nearly all muslims are pretty good..." Otherwise, yeah, i agree, cut off the head and the beast will die. (the beast in this case being extremist, hate, and terrorism)

How do you want them to react? Invade more countries? Perhaps everywhere but Saudi Arabia? Maybe just from Egypt, north to Russia, and east to China? (Cause china has 3 billion people) Your above point actually kind of fits here.

Yeah, you're right, you can't love everyone. But you can't just assume, because someones skin has a little more pigment, they are a threat. Also, no shit we're not totally free. If we we're totally free, how the fuck do you think anything would function. Yeah i can do whatever the hell i want, so i want to go and steal a computer out of the local school. Its common sense, but we are as close to freedom as there can be in a society.

[Wotansvolk]

You should'nt say christianity is the worst violator but "was".

My point of saying that your not free is in response of someone saying that we are in a free country.....i'll repeat your freedom end were the freedom of others start.

There is some soldier in Iraq it havent been made official and there's not a lot of them! And it might be an error to always work against the us decision like the liberal party have been doing! Don't forget US represent a big part of our exportation.

I don't know enough muslim to say nearly all of them are good, from what i see in Iraq good muslim don't help military or police by telling them were radical believer are hiding!

Did i ever talked about invading country??? No­.I talked about preventing in our own country. The point is i don't like getting political refugee....you have to bring something to canada to be accept i don't care if you have put yourself in a dangerous position in your own country!!

LOL yeah i know the definition af anarchy boy......read my first point right here for the explanation of why i said that!
I hate to have to explain myself in english i'm missing words lol!!
But i try my best. Don't try to make me look like a racist guy i'm not racist but i'm very concern of the safety of my country....did you know that every year we lose some temporary immigrant in the nature? they just disapear!

Cya my Chummy Oh You!!!

[Hellfighter]

You should'nt say christianity is the worst violator but "was".

My point of saying that your not free is in response of someone saying that we are in a free country.....i'll repeat your freedom end were the freedom of others start.

There is some soldier in Iraq it havent been made official and there's not a lot of them! And it might be an error to always work against the us decision like the liberal party have been doing! Don't forget US represent a big part of our exportation.

I don't know enough muslim to say nearly all of them are good, from what i see in Iraq good muslim don't help military or police by telling them were radical believer are hiding!

Did i ever talked about invading country??? No­.I talked about preventing in our own country. The point is i don't like getting political refugee....you have to bring something to canada to be accept i don't care if you have put yourself in a dangerous position in your own country!!

LOL yeah i know the definition af anarchy boy......read my first point right here for the explanation of why i said that!
I hate to have to explain myself in english i'm missing words lol!!
But i try my best. Don't try to make me look like a racist guy i'm not racist but i'm very concern of the safety of my country....did you know that every year we lose some temporary immigrant in the nature? they just disapear!

Cya my Chummy Oh You!!!

He never said you were a racist... several of your points seem radical and not focused on violators and with using draconian tactics that unfairly 'label' others as undesirable to be potential citizens.
No you don't HAVE to bring something into Canada to be accepted... Foremost is they'll show the potential to be a very good citizen. > its not all about being rich, or even have a great job - many highly skilled immigants will tell you they have to wait years before they can pursue their former high level jobs since they must re-do exams and sometimes start once again from the bottom up.
Political refugees show outside of our comparably comfortable lifestyle in Canada, people in other horrible parts of the world are bravely standing up for their basic human rights. Maybe you don't care about it, but because our society generally does care, countless numbers of foreigners fleeing torture or execution merely for politically speaking against their government's values are shown there is hope and safety somewhere!
God bless them for resisting their evil governments oppression and how they risked their lives or a long stay in a horrid jail in order to start the seeds of civilised living in their society and/or bravely attempt to live in some small way how we in Our Free country enjoy and take it for granted.

There are a few 'democratic' nations that have/do take in former dictators seeking refuge because they have stolen fortunes to make them 'desirable'. No, for me, I love that our country is doing the right thing in accepting political refugees who bring only the shirts on their back and broken dreams of freedom in their place of birth.

It's wimpy to say we should 'go along' with the US policy simply because they our our economic cousins.
Everyone here has the freedom to say they like or don't like another countries policy. Take a look at the American polls>>> Less than 40% of Americans approve with Bush's current role as President. In other words don't think all Americans are backing the President or how he handled post-fall-of-Baghdad Iraq. He maybe the US President but that doesn't mean what he and his neo-con buddies are currently doing is what the entire United States believe in.

My country = Our country.... other citizens here have their own version of how our society can function without alienating ourselves. Globally Canada is much respected and envied BECAUSE of our policy of fair inclusion across a broad spectrum of people. You can't define where 'our freedom begins'> that's solely your idea. My idea of freedom involves a progression of human thinking and sharing that idea globally not just within our borders and to those with enough $$$ to get in....

As for informants... you can bet that's what's keeping northern and southern Iraq generally safe. The people there generally trust each other and are largely on good terms with the security forces in those zones- therefore the fear of reprisals is very low for informing. Central Iraq is the Insugency fortress. Informing must be near-suicidal if not proceeded with fully secure and smartly. There is the very real risk of losing your entire family if you are found out to be an informant. It must be very horrible since the Iraqis in that area would like nothing better than to rat out the bombers that are blowing up dozens of their friends and family each week. Many Iraqis are very brave and get a few insurgents taken out through giving valued information but new terrorists come in fast, so you must assume there is a general mentality of complying won't change the status quo and the risk is too great when there is obviously not the comfort of knowing you can feel safe going to bed at night after informing. We can't compare our system to theirs and think such decisions seem logical. It'd be nice if they had a anonymous phoneline like Crimestoppers or America's Most Wanted but its more complicated than that, isn't it, mon chum ?


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 06/20/06 9:49am

[Wotansvolk]

Yeah i might seem radical .....i might be.....maybe because i'm fed up with some immigrant complaining about our system like i'm fed up with the freakin B.S how do you call that....wellfare people living on the arm of the rest of the working people(wich most of them are white and what we could call a pure whole Quebecer "french translation". I'm tired of people who loves everybody and think that everybody are good people. We are living in a great country and yes we have more freedom than a lot of other country but everything is not pink and beautiful there's some shit going around and people have to start talking about it!

Well as for the thing about our economics cousin....i don't like a lot bush either....i'm working in the lumber business so i guess you know the issue about lumber taxing us for stupid reason! But when it comes tooo the anti-missile project.....why did we not join them??

i'm not against immigration.....we need it due to our inability(??) to make kids of our own and it can bring new expertise, but if i ever hear about a political refugee talking against our system....man i'll be so pissed off would'nt you???

Oh yeah i care about other people in other part of the world espacially children, i think a kid should play not work....as for the adult they can defend themselve.

As for the informants ....it's true it's not easy!!

Oh the hell with that i have expose my point...can judge me on it or respect it as for me i've heard you guys and i agree with some of your point!

Chummy Hell and Oh You i liked that discussion but now it's going in circle.

C ya on battlefield.....come and kick my ass!! LoL



This post has been edited by Wotansvolk: 06/20/06 10:13am

[Silver]

I skipped over most of this but got the drift

if you want to pray, pray
if you want to convert, do so peacefully
if you want to wear a turbin, wear it when ur not in uniform

if you think you need to be treated different for any reason your a stupid fuck
make your own accomidations, make it so others dont have to deal with W/E bullshit you tie yourself up with!

if your god dont forgive you for taking off the towel to go to work then your a dumbass! DONT TRY AND GET THAT JOB!


if you believe that ppl are kind, and nice, and nice ppl finish first? please tell me what reality you live in or pass the pills!

[Wotansvolk]

I pretty agree whit what Silver says...you have a hard way of saying things but.....i agree!

[Hellfighter]

I'm not spending my short timeshare on Earth dwelling on the idea on a race to see if 'nice guys' finishes first or last... In MY reality nice people aren't concerned about that either-> they prefer sharing and therefore you can bet they aren't paranoid or fatalistic not to mention getting steamed about world chaos happening if a government sees no credible reason after MUCH discussion why a turban can't replace a standard helmet for the purposes of his sincere religious beliefs- like I mentioned before, the Brits had no problem at all with Sikhs wearing turbans along with their issued British uniforms and weapons while numerous Sikh regiments fought and died in British military service for a couple of hundred years. Life is short and Things change... its called progress sometimes. The RCMP is still as much an Elite Law Enforcement contingent as ever since the first turban was introduced.

Nothing wrong with getting upset/angry with whiner statements about the system from immigrants> its their right. Non-immigrants/citizens whine too remember.
You'll get no argument from me about immigrants needing to assimilate in society and not be self cloistered. Of course they're free not to do so, but for me that doesn't make for a healthy society. That being said, I have no problem with them wanting to keep up former home cultural activities as long as they assimilate too.

You want to see welfare corruption, you should've been around in the 80s. Now, the system is much under control so let's not get into the immigarnts burdening the system deal> generally they'll be contributing invaluably to the sysyem. Not to mention offset the upcoming aging population problem in the future. As much as Montreal and Quebec city is much loved by Canuck visitors Wotan mon chum, you should live outside of Quebec [in Canada] to hear how not just a few anti-Quebecer Canadians have radical views of where they'd like to see Quebec go along with every person in Quebec - then you'll get a feel for how biased opinions beat up an entire group of people unfairly and crazily.
Yup, I'm done too... cya in the wargrounds.


This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 06/20/06 8:32pm