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[Genocide Junkie]

Cant understand being Christian and calling Intelligent design crap.... that blows me away... I find it difficult to believe we came from a primordial soup of non life that produced life. I'm not saying that species have not evolved I'm saying that there is no chemical process that produces life. Why is it so hard for the left to allow both "theories" to be presented? Neither one can be proven without doubt. What are they scared of? Creation is not a subject singular to one religion. The second law of thermodynamics says that if we leave something alone, the natural tendency is for it to go from a state of order to disorder. How then can a sludge of chemicals develop life and walk out of the oceans? Or how about when we die, all of the same chemical building blocks are there. The only difference is life. What chemical process or evolution accounts for that?

[CommanderChoth]

I'm with you on this Bar. NAMBLA is a disgusting organization. But if it has to exist so that I don't have to conform to the regulations set by the majority, then by God I'm going let that shit be.

lol, now don't get me started on I.D and evolution. I will simply say that intellegent design is not backed by the scientific method. Evolution is a theory than has been peer reviewed over the years and was developed by using the scientific method. Therefore, I ask, why teach the kids science if you are going to have a secondary approach that goes against what science is all about.
It's like a teacher asking how clouds are formed. Little timmy will answer: "clouds exist because of crystalized water vapor condesing by cooling". Teacher responds, "yes, and I would also accept because God made them".
Or,
What was the answer to #3 on the Bio exam?
Jesus.

I'm not saying intellgent design doesn't exist. I have my own opinons, and respect those of more religious people. I'm just saying it contradicts the scientific method, the method on which all of our science education is based. Keep it out of my school.

[Genocide Junkie]

That's ridiculous to say that you would extend "ID" to cover every topic. It is one topic that has a great number of people who believe both. Why would you only teach one side of it? To me it isn't about Christianity, every civilization from begining of time has believed in a creator or creators. You can use Science to prove points in ID just as you can in Evo. There are tons of books on it many of which I've read. Is it any crazier to believe that we have a creator when our planet just happens to be the right size, in the right spot, the right distance from a star, that happens to be the right size, have the right gravity to hold the correct atmosphere, tilted at the correct angle, with the right elements, in the correct combinations, which defy thermodynamics and move from simple to complex, supporting life which has extremely low tolerances for existance, etc. Does it take more faith to believe that these events all happened by chance (the odds of which would be immeasurable) or that there is a creator who did this? It's not for me to say either one (or both)is correct. But why are some so affraid of this?

Junkie

[Bargod]

Not to mention that many of the orginizations that back ID often refer to it as "Creationism". Creationism can not be taught in schools. The courts have already decided this. So, with a few subtle changes and calling it ID, it has to go through the whole process again.

Here is my argument against the kind of thinking that says science goes against religion. Now, first off, I believe in GOD. I have many issues with the church as I have gone to christian shools and attended church and read the bible on my own and through education and introspection, I believe much of what the church says is not what the bible says.
What I believe is that God gave man intelligence. He gave man the ability to learn and write and grow smarter. Science is one of God's greatest gifts. It gives an average person the ability to heal, without the need of a miracle from the holy spirit. Why would we throw away this gift from God to go by a book that speaks in stories. It is a guide book that has set us on a path. It is not the end of knowledge, but a place to start. It has also been changed many times throughout history. Parts of it have been purposely left out. So it is also incomplete.

There is a story I was told as a child, and I think it fits this example. An old man turns on his TV and sees a news report that there is going to be a big storm and that there will be flooding. He goes outside where it is getting cloudy. His neighbor tells him they are heading towards higher ground and offers the old man a ride.
"No, thanks", responds the old man. "God will save me".
Later it is pouring down rain. The flood waters are rising. A police man comes to the old man's house and offers to get him out.
"No, thanks. God will save me".
The water continues to rise and and the old man is stranded on his roof. A rescue boat comes by, but the old man sends it away.
"God will save me."
The water continues to rise and the man drowns. When he gets to heaven he asks God, "Why did you let me die? I thought you were going to save me?"
God replied, "I tried to save you 3 times, but you refused my help."

The point is, God is in everything we do. He works through scientists as well as preachers. He works in our neighbors and teachers. So to say that evolution goes against religion is just silly. ID has no legitimate scientific backing. It has very rich and powerful christian backing. These people are working on a revisionist history. ID should not be taught in public schools because it is a christian notion. Public schools are for all people, not just christians. That's why private schools exist. And homeschooling, which is where much of the revisionist history and political/religious agendas are taught (no offense, Lipton).

This post has been edited by Bargod: 08/18/06 4:55pm

[Undertow]

How did this topic wander from NAMBLA/ACLU to Religion vs Evo/creationism?

[Bargod]

Because I didn't feel like talking about the aclu. I've wanted to talk about evo v. ID for a while now, LOL! I did it really well, too, I think.

[Undertow]

LMAO Well done bar!

[CommanderChoth]

. Is it any crazier to believe that we have a creator when our planet just happens to be the right size, in the right spot, the right distance from a star, that happens to be the right size, have the right gravity to hold the correct atmosphere, tilted at the correct angle, with the right elements, in the correct combinations, which defy thermodynamics and move from simple to complex, supporting life which has extremely low tolerances for existance, etc.
Junkie

So it's not crazy to think that everything is perfect because of billions of years of adaptation. I'll spare the details of the scientific history of the universe, even though it's cool shit. Chemical reactions create a single cell that is capable of copying itself. This cell copies, but the cell is not going to make a perfect copy everytime. Thus mutation....blah blah blah, do this trillions of times over the course of billions of years. The ones that don't work die, the ones that do live on, only the strong mutations live on.

W00t! We adjust to the planet so that everything seems to work PERFECTLY.

That's what I believe.

And yea, that was quite eloquent there bg

[Wildman]

i have a feeling this thread is going into the biological studies of reproduction soon....

This post has been edited by Wildman: 08/18/06 6:58pm

[pezking]

Evolution is science, creationism is a rumor. What gets me is a lot of people that don't believe in evolution DO believe in extra-terrestrial being out somewhere. Kind of hipocritical.

[Genocide Junkie]

Could you please send me the equation for that chemical reaction that creates life? I'd like to whip up one single celled organism (the most simple in the world) in a petry dish.

[HarryCaray]

I just watched that south park episode, hilarious!

This post has been edited by HarryCaray: 08/19/06 8:22am

[SKTemplarRD]

"God will save me."
The water continues to rise and the man drowns. When he gets to heaven he asks God, "Why did you let me die? I thought you were going to save me?"


Was not the man saved by being in heaven?

[TheGhost]

Please tell me, Oh You, that your sig is a lie, and you are NOT a "Proud Supporter" of the Gay Man-Boy Faggot Group.