You cant help a feeling #2, Are our borders safe? You decide!! Options

[THE Mechanic]

I know Pesking ,Master of disaster,and Genoside Junkie just love new debates so here you go guys and tell us how you really feel.Let the fur fly..LOL...And there off..

"The Mechanic"

Uniformed Mexican Force
Invades Arizona


6501 Greenway Parkway Suite 103-640 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 :: Phone (520) 829-3112
ALERT: Remember the incursion into U.S. territory last week by Mexican gunmen that we emailed you about?
It appears that it was NOT a "chance confrontation" between the Arizona National Guard and untrained illegal immigrants, but a deliberate "perimeter probe" by an infantry-trained, uniformed Mexican force, according to a just-released online report.

The Euphoric Reality blog has learned in exclusive interviews with high-ranking sources within both the Arizona National Guard and the U.S. Border Patrol that the incident the mainstream media calls a "standoff" was in reality a military-style operation, carried out by a unit of Mexican troops dressed in military uniforms, flak jackets, and armed with AK-47s in an apparent operation to probe the border defenses and test the limits of the National Guard troops. Using easily recognizable infantry movement tactics (such as arm and hand signals and flanking maneuvers), the Mexican unit deliberately moved in a military formation across the border from Mexico, while under surveillance by the National Guard and Border Patrol.

WHY ISN'T THIS PAGE ONE NEWS ACROSS AMERICA???

You can be sure of this: the new Democrat-led Congress isn't going to do anything about this. In fact, it already looks like they're ready to refuse to fund the border fence Congress voted to build -- and President Bush signed into law -- last year!

SOMEONE needs to do something -- and now, someone IS: the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is building a REAL border fence along the U.S.-Mexico border!

The Minuteman Border Fence is an extension of the citizens' border security group Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. It was created to put steel in the ground and to demonstrate the feasibility of securing the border by building fencing as a part of the Minuteman Movement, the grassroots initiative that seeks to secure America's sovereign territory against incursion, invasion, and terrorism.

As we can see AGAIN from this news story, the United States is under siege by forces and interests that have the capacity, over time, to destroy our great experiment of responsible self-government.

Members of the MCDC are organizing as citizen volunteers, to safeguard our beloved nation from violence, from sedition, from wholesale attack by those who do not love America and wish to see her destroyed or irremediably altered from a nation of liberty, equality, and justice, and a bastion of western civilization. The Minutemen are recruiting and training volunteer citizens who will stand as patriots for the promise that is, and ever has been, America to build a border fence.

If you are concerned about the chaos upon our broken borders, if you believe America should welcome legal immigration but reject colonization and Balkanization, then we need to join together to help the Minutemen secure the future of our nation for the American people and her posterity.

And a GREAT start is to build a REAL border fence along the Mexican border... to help STOP the "incursions" like this latest one in Arizona!

TAKE ACTION: The new Congress will likely succeed at undoing federal plans to build 700 miles of fence, leaving the Minuteman Border Fence the only real barrier being built. It is therefore imperative that the people of the United States support and build the Minuteman Border Fence themselves -- until this government gets the message and is forced to do its job and fully and competently secure our national border.

Select Here to Donate NOW and Build the Minuteman Border Fence
https://secure.responseenterpries.com/mmfence/?a=691

[Genocide Junkie]

No debate needed. Send 10,000 troops to the border and tell them to shoot anything coming across. In two weeks we'll never see another illegal trying to cross. I bet you any amount of money you want that you don't walk across Russia's border especially doing military maneuvers. But of course defending our border might infringe on their rights to settle here and reap the benefits of my tax dollars. This problem has passed any point where it can be handled and now very well could be the undoing of America. All the while our elected officials who have our interests at heart (comment smothered in sarcasim) do squat.

Junkie

[Barkmann]

Genocide Junkie, your 100% right. Im Canadian but i do keep my eye on my friends in the USA.

[pezking]

I agree with Genocide as well.

I have no idea why this isn't top news? The secular progressive movement seems to keep this stuff out of the media I guess. All and all, I don't have an issue with people bettering their lives and if they're coming to America to get a decent job and provide for their families, more power to them. They need to legalize themselves at some point. I just don't want the criminal element that comes over the border as well. The illegals are also getting more citizen rights than I do... atleast it seems that way at times.

The just started ICE training with the police in my county last week. Hopefully after a few weeks of training we will see some changes. ICE = Immigration and Customs Enforcement. This way, they can arrest and deport in less steps. Right now, the illegals are all over the place and the police can't do much about it till they actually commit a crime in front of the police. Otherwise, no identification, etc. They are too hard to track down unless you don't mind sitting in front of the laundromat or 7-11 all day waiting for them.

[Genocide Junkie]

Hey Pez if I'm not mistaken even if they were to say be stoped for a traffic violation or a minor offense of some kind your locals can't do anything to them (except the normal). They cannot hold them for INS to come get them etc. It's nuts. I live in an area where they are everywhere. I like you have no problem with someone trying to better themselves. A friend of mine is an executive at Gold Kist which is in the poultry industry. The county I live in is the 3rd largest poultry producer in the nation. Having said that I was asking him about how many he thought were illegal in his plant (which is 85% hispanic) and he wouldnt tell me. He did tell me that he would have someone come work for 6 months with "papers" then leave for a month and another person show up with the same "papers". These companies while they don't exactly try to stop it shouldnt have to be detectives to be able to tell legit paperwork from frauds. It's a real problem as the schools and city infrastructure are not set up for the 15,000 people who are there who have not been tax payers there. All the while there's not much the city gov't can do to get them out. It's a tough situation that's been created by a lack of enforcement of our border. It's really frustrating....

Junkie

[Hellfighter]

For one thing, look at the budget needed to secure the border as estimated by border authorities... I believe its just a few days added up of what's being spent in Iraq. Can you spell 'M-i-s-d-i-r-e-c-t-i-o-n' of funds Mr.Bush.

This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/10/07 5:47pm

[Genocide Junkie]

Mr. Bush can't spend one red cent w/o congress. And this problem didnt start yesterday, it didnt start last month, hell it didnt start this century. This has been an issue for 20+ years. To lay this at Mr. Bush's feet ignores congress (which actually makes laws by the way) and all the leaders before him (including savior Clinton). Lets see how far the new congress will go to do something. My bet is they won't do anything but give it lip service and talk about what racists we are for wanting to close the border. Wait and see.

Junkie

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

Do you guys actually believe a "news story" put out by a group that just happens to be trying to build their own fence at the border? This sounds to me like one of the most absurb stories ever. Mexicans "attacking" the US border with military movements!?!?! LOL. Come on! Think about it! If anything even remotely like what is described happened, it was probably 4 guys high on Coke!

[Hellfighter]

hey MoD
Actually there are newly constructed fences up at certain points along the border and from what they're observing, the method does deter illegal crossings- at those points.

hi again Junkie
As to laying the blame at Bush's feet-that's incorrect. My point is regarding border security in general-NOT about putting up fences as the 'be-all,end-all solution' which the congress wouldn't go for exclusively for their own agendas/reasons-The funding requested for effective border security in general I ranges from $2-20 billion. Some are saying the war in Iraq may end up costing $1-2 trillion. So why Bush is defying; the general consesus of his Generals [who he said he'd listen to and base his own decisions on that]; and many Republican in the Senat and Congress at home; and the vast majority of Americans [repubs and dems]; and the results of the November elections implying a preference for a pull-out strategy; and ignoring the Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan; Why. oh why is he doing a 'Surge'- he did it before and it didn't work- I hope it does work, but the odds are it won't mean a thing in the end- violence will continue as always there until the Iraqis summon enough willpower to work together. The surge will cost soldiers lives needlessly...... and yes MISDIRECTION of financial resources- Bush can put up a better case to spend money on a secure border at home - not just fences.

This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/12/07 9:12am

[pezking]

I agree on not moving money outside the country and work on what we have here. Hellfighter, you'd better be careful... we might start migrating up to Canada in the next few years if the illegal situation here gets worse. I've been up there several times and I love it... ofcourse it's always on vacation or for hockey/soccer tourneys so I'm having fun regardless.

[Radiation]

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This post has been edited by Radiation: 04/27/07 4:45pm

[pezking]

I wouldn't want to push a button to kill all illegal immigrants. Let's say instead, we push the red button to improve the economy and government in Mexico so these people don't have to leave their families and country behind. They'll have more pride in taking a good job in Mexico than having to sneak into the states and be illegal. I'm against illegal immigration, but I can definately empathize with their situation. I'm actually more against the people that are abusing our government and system while being illegal. The hospital bills that I have to pay for with my tax dollars, the gang crime, the unlicensed drivers, etc.

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

hey MoD
Actually there are newly constructed fences up at certain points along the border and from what they're observing, the method does deter illegal crossings- at those points.

Not saying I didn't believe there were groups building fences. I read that before. And of course it deters illegals at that area, because it is easier for the Mexican to go to the area where there is no fence and cross there! LOL. That seems pretty obvious!

I'm just laughing at the story that implies the "Mexicans" are now making military incursions into the US and that this was a test of the US defences for more miltary-style invasions! The fact the story was basically written by groups so dedicated against illegal immigration their are building their own fences, I think the objectivity of said story might be slightly lacking. Wasn't commenting on the politics of illegal immigration, just that I think this particular story was ludicrious.

This post has been edited by M@ster of Dis@ster: 01/12/07 5:26pm

[Hellfighter]

hey MoD
Actually there are newly constructed fences up at certain points along the border and from what they're observing, the method does deter illegal crossings- at those points.

.............
I'm just laughing at the story that implies the "Mexicans" are now making military incursions into the US and that this was a test of the US defences for more miltary-style invasions! The fact the story was basically written by groups so dedicated against illegal immigration their are building their own fences, I think the objectivity of said story might be slightly lacking. Wasn't commenting on the politics of illegal immigration, just that I think this particular story was ludicrious.

lol, ok dokey, I see what you mean MoD- I'm pretty sure they may be referring to the well organized drug smugglers who are operating in military gear and using similar tactics during their operations- who knows- maybe they are part of the mexican military already.

As for Mexicans in Canada; I'm in tourism related work and we get alot of average-well to do Mexican tourists/families who love it up here when they visit-and they're very humble too. We also have big latino populations in our major cities in Ontario and Quebec too. I can emphathize with you Rad about noise disturbances- but those partying guys in your apartment are punks and most societies have their segments of punks from various backgrounds doing the same thing. I think you're seeing only the type of people living hand to mouth and on the move with adopted customs from their former neighbourhoods, which are played out when living together in large groups- I'm pretty sure any group of 'poor' foreigners starting out in a new country with little going for them have the same living set-up too. Knowing some 'average' mexicans myself I don't see them with those habits which drive me nuts too .

This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 01/12/07 7:50pm

[Radiation]

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This post has been edited by Radiation: 04/27/07 4:45pm