Time for a History Lesson, Immigration Options

[-priority(+)target-]

no way an invisble line is going to stop someone from a better life, or the hope of one. What makes them want to come to America? All I have seen is pointing fingers and blaming when the real problem is millions of 'mexicans' among others are living in squaller conditions and have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to loose.

Americans can't EVEN get Americans to clean up after a disaster, and the illegals/immigrants see this as the opportunity to work and provide food their family. There-in lies the disparity of the situation and the problem.

/*
Pez, the fact your cousin didn't have the health insurance she needed has nothing to do with providing healthcare to someone else, but this somehow an illegal immigration problem? I just don't understand the connection frankly.
*/

What is the real demographic of illegal immigrants? How do they contribute, what role do they play in society? What percentage have been given a real opportunity at education or to come clean, or even treated fairly by prospective employers, what percentage were incarcerated for gang related activity? What percentage go without any dental or medial care? You know I bet 90% if offered would JUMP at the opportunity to become citizens and are hard working good people like the rest of us.

Instead of trying to understand and solve the problem all that has been done is the demonification of them, ALL of them unfairly. Sounds like persecution to me. I AM NOT defending those that abuse the system or those that don't stand up like men.

I grasp the situation to a certain degree, I just suggested that you look to find solutions. This is no different that other mass migrations of other peoples. I don't know all the details of what is happening in southern florida... but I can tell you that my buddies kid goes to school in toronto. In her school in the paper recently documented that over 57 nationalities were represented in that school! And we are not without our issues as well.

[pezking]

Pez, the fact your cousin didn't have the health insurance she needed has nothing to do with providing healthcare to someone else, but this somehow an illegal immigration problem? I just don't understand the connection frankly.

I never said she didn't have health insurance. She did have insurance. Seriously, do you just have some issues with Americans or something? I don't understand your angle at all. You don't live here, you don't understand the problems, all these people that do live in the US are posting about the issues... yet, you still seem to think that it's wrong. I don't think anyone here is against immigration. Just do it right and have everyone contribute. There are just too many undocumented people in the US right now that are abusing the system or could possibly be terrorists for all we know. It's wrong, I blame the US, Mexican, and a few other governments for this. They know it's a problem yet they continue to ignore it. Do you know if I went to Mexico, I wouldn't get any of the stuff that these people are getting when they come here. It's messed up, but Mexico loves it cause they get rid of their lower class... then the lower class sends money back to Mexico to boost their economy. But... wow, I'm probably just making all this up and you know what's really happening.

[UNDEAD 1]

well said . to sh ,i am not against people coming here in anyway,infact i have a few very good friends who are from south amarica and took the right steps to become citizens and let me tell you ,its a hell of a long road for them and i respect that . i can even give two shits if they marry into the country because atleast their registered and paying taxes. i too blame the governments as well and alot of these illegals would be citizens if it were not for 9/11 . i dont think that theres any solution to the problem with the way the governments are handling the situation ,bush seems to want back taxes and thats ridiculous. the weird thing is that while they are so busy trying to get here , corps and rich buissnessmen ,worldwide , are buying up hundreds of thousands of acres of land in south amarica and mexico , soon their country wont be their country anymore .

[Cero]

for me, i don't care as long as they go through the process of becoming legal. My problem is that if you decide to move to another country, shouldn't you learn there language. Yes, people do speak english in just about every country but if i move to france, im going to learn how to speak french, thats there language. Thats for some reason just bothers me. How do you move someplace and not learn the language?

maybe i should start throwing out some jokes, we'll get this thread going with hate posts.lol.

This post has been edited by Cero: 06/19/07 10:00am

[Jack]

i with pez on this one we offer to much and get little in return sept high tax rate and people who dont speak english.

[-priority(+)target-]

Immigrants and illegals were persecuted by the statements in this thread, and I was shocked and am a little embarrassed! My perspective was different, probably because of how many immigrants and illegals live within an hour of where I do. I don't know...

The perspective that ONLY "Americans" would understand illegal immigration is a limited perspective. You need to know that every advantaged (G8 at least) nation in the world has this very problem and it is VERY significant. Canada, UK, France, Germany on and on... not to even look at the issues worldwide with mass migrations...

My perspective from watching the last 25 years (when I have been old enough to understand what was happening) in Canada is for one to tolerate, and look for solutions (maybe tough ones that take some time) and accept the situation.

Too much time pointing fingers rather than look at the reality of the situation is VERY dangerous. I understand more of the problem there, I honestly appreciate that. I don't necessarily agree with your points of view though, mostly because I think you yanks are a bit fanatical, for a conservative Canadian guy, anyway I'll move along...

[M@ster of Dis@ster]

i with pez on this one we offer to much and get little in return sept high tax rate and people who dont speak english.

WTF is with the "no maple Leaf" avatar? Is that a knock agains t Canadians? Would it be OK if I get one with an American flag with an "X" through it? Will that be cool?

[Jack]

just a joke picture for friends from canada

[pezking]

I think the issue for me is that I have been cool about illegals in the past because they were looking to better themselves. Now, after it's blown up around me, I'm seeing that they don't give a shit and are just destroying what's good in my city/county. I'm active in stopping companies from hiring them at the multi-billion dollar work site they built for the illegals. I'm politically active w/my voice, letters, and emails about the issue. It really pisses me off when they hold rallies and wave the Mexican flags while burning the US flags and then they call me a nazi. WTF? I'm not about hate. I just don't want the crime, graffiti, and everything else that came along w/the bad seeds when they showed up.

I understand that there are many other countries and nations that are dealing w/the problem as well, but most of them have acts to control the matters. Our government turns a blind eye to this problem like it doesn't exsist cause they want to get re-elected. Seriously, if suddenly a few million Brazilians showed up in Canada, changed your language, made it unsafe for your children to even attend school, and then drove up your taxes... would you still feel the same way Some Help? I guess overall, I'm concerned for normal citizens rights and my wallet size. If they were here, actually contributing, I wouldn't have a huge issue with it. And don't forget, they've already broken our laws getting over here... they are illegal. Why is that okay? It's okay for Jorge to be here but not Mohammed?

[Genocide Junkie]

Pez for wanting our government to take action and enforce our laws you get labeled a racist bigot. I have no problem with ppl bettering themselves. I do have a problem when I have to pay for it. I may have told this before but here goes anyway... I live in the second largest poultry producing county in the nation. A friend of mine is the sales manager of one of the plants and while he wouldnt tell me the percentage of illegals he did say that it's not uncommon for Jorge to show up and work with papers etc. for 6 months, leave for a few weeks, and Jose show up using the same papers etc. He knows they are fakes but it's not his place to be a forgery expert. We're covered up by them and like you our schools are bursting at the seams. Not to mention my car insurance is the highest in the state due to the uninsured motorists who by and large are you guessed it Illegals. We have to do something about it. Saying that it must be dealt with does not make us fanatics. It makes us human. I'm not asking for mass deportation. I'm asking for my country to enforce the laws in place which are there to protect me and my family..... I don't think that's unreasonable.

[pezking]

cosigned

[Nothing]

Pez,

I am completely with you on this issue.

[Keystone Two-Eight]

IMNSHO; If you come to this country or any other, and strive to become a citizen of said country, then I have no problem with immigrants.



One of the hardest working guys I know is originally from Croatia.He,his wife and daughters left as the tanks rolled down their street, and never looked back. a few years ago, he took the citizenship test and passed 100%. But he does not understand a great deal of english, so it is hard for him. He's 50 something years old, so learning a new language is harder for him, but he knows German, and so a coworker and I communicate with him that way when all else fails. but he works 40+ at our printshop, and then goes home and works at the print shop he has set up in his garage at night and on weekends.



My own ancestors came here from Germany and Denmark, and disavowed any alleigance to the Kaiser or the King of Denmark. If you are willing to come here -or anywhere- and bust your butt like everyone else and follow the rules? I've got nary a problem with you. But if you sneak in, abuse the system, and cause trouble? Hit the bricks pal, I've got no use for you.

[pezking]

Yeah man, eastern Europeans have a uber strong work ethic.

[Keystone Two-Eight]

Yeah man, eastern Europeans have a uber strong work ethic.

I wonder; what happened to the Great American work ethic? Fer instance; My Grandfather found work during the depression shoveling coal into the furnaces at U.S. Steel. Noone else wanted the position because everyone else there was African American, but he realized that whatever it was, it put food on his table, and thats all that mattered. Now people bitch and whine over the smallest of slights, have we really become that soft???