Barbarossa II - Smolensk Beta 2 Options

[Hellfighter]

That trench system is fabulous. In a recent game I used it to pick off oncoming Germans from the village with great effect at far range. Upon my death, 2 jerries hid themselves around/in the trenches and mauled me time after time as I tried to re-enter the works from spawning. Thereupon I eventually had to go in very sneakily and check each trench dugout to flush out the well hidden foe. A very nice little battle within a battle.

[ScrapyardBob]

Okie dokey!

If you want to PM me a link, I'll be sure to do the pak/45mm gun check. I'll even check on the KV1/PzIV spawn points to see if they can touch bases.

[Slyk]

Once I get a solid compile tonight, I'll pm you the DL link. Not so concerned about the tanks shelling bases, that will be a very tough job to eliminate all those angles. The paks are one thing I would like to reduce in effectiveness though...just always seemed to cheap. Again, I suffer due to my 'chaos' design approach...eh...makes em more interesting, right?

[ScrapyardBob]

Updated base / map analysis.

G1 - moderate

As stated before, the hilltop SE of the stone bridge is key to the defense / assault on G1 (and somewhat for G2). If the germans hold this hilltop, G1 will be difficult to assault. If russians control it, the base will fall quickly but the russians will have to move closer to G1 to prevent defusal teams. Reinforcments by germans is moderately easy.

G1 defense, probably 2 players. One on the pak gun and another to hold the ridge to the east of G1. If there's a 3rd, they'll probably assist on the hilltop where the tank scrape is.

G2 - medium

Easily shelled and any defensive troops are exposed. Germans can setup shop in the buildings around the stone bridge and it's a short run from the german spawn to G2. It might be good to allow 1-2 germans to spawn in the houses by G2. Or a spawn in the house to the W of the G2 pak gun.

OTOH, defusal teams have a straight shot out of the german spawn to rush up the road to G2. No rivers / slopes / broken ground to cross (which slows down jeeps).

G2 defense will probably require 1-3 players. One on the pak gun, one closer to the base on the N side, and a 3rd hiding in the houses.

G3 - weakest

Easily shelled from a long distance due to the hilltop position. Infantry have easy approach due to all of the trees around the base. It's also easily flanked. There's no good place for infantry to hole up at. It has a very wide frontage that needs to be guarded to keep russians from approaching.

Minimal defense for G3 will require 3-4 players. One on the pak gun, one looking SE towards the pillbox, one to watch the W approach. The 4th could possibly assist on the N flank.

A bunker south of G3 overlooking the SE might help. (Similar to the small bunkers used in Barbarossa such as the one that is near G1 and faces the middle german pak gun). It would need to face SE to cover any approach from the pillbox side. A small trench line S of the pak gun would assist as well (running from the pak gun to the E side of the G3 bunker along the ridge edge). Part of the trench would need to be covered to allow troops to shelter from arty strikes.

R1 - strong

The only way to get tanks here is to pass near the town. As a result, german advance is vulnerable to russians pouring out of the spawn area. Infantry, OTOH, can easily pass through the tunnel and infiltrate the houses by R1.

Defense of R1 can probably be handled by 1-3 players. One player in the trenches or in a tank by R1. Second player to keep the houses clear. A third player could watch the swamp approach and man the 45mm gun.

R2 - moderate

Similar issues as G2. Easy for infantry to approach. More difficult to shell due to being behind the church and being covered by other buildings on other approaches. There are a LOT of approaches to R2. A very wide front with lots of obscured sight lines.

Defense of R2 is going to require 4+ players. One on the 45mm gun. One in the church tower. And two more to watch the various flanks and keep the houses clear.

R3 - weak

Defending R3 is actually rather easy. The hard part is getting reinforcements there if the enemy controls the southeast approach. As long as the russians hold the west end of the area (the ridgetop), the germans will find it difficult to assault into this area. The situation is going to be similar to an assault on R1 in the original Barbarossa map.

Defense can be done by 2+ players. One at the top of the ridge looking W. The other to make sure nothing sneaks in from the south approach. A third player could float between the two spots, spending most of their time in the house / stable.

Other issues:

a) Tank hiding

Russians have the advantage. They have the entire rail depot area at their disposal. Easy enough to hide tanks back there where germans won't think to look. In addition, teammates probably won't go wandering back there looking for tanks to steal.

German hiding spot is the water pump river to the SE of G1. Or possibly behind a building in the german spawn. German thieves may decide to utilize the rail depot as well.

b) All roads lead to Rome

The main town at R2 is going to become a heavy battleground. All tank approaches lead past here. Action fanatics will get their fill in this location. Battles will probably mostly occur along the area from R2 to G2. Any assault up the middle road will have to deal with withering ambushes from both sides due to all of the houses and the pillbox area.


This post has been edited by ScrapyardBob: 02/08/06 1:58am

[Slyk]

Thanks for the synopsis, Bob. Good job and some fine points made, especially about defense works at G3. IF I can free up resources (Bob knows the current mantra), I can do what you suggest and a bit more. For those 'out of the loop', I have made the biggest map possible within the confines of the game engine when you count all the brushwork and meshwork... Literally adding another wall or pile of logs will crash the compile.

I really am thrilled with the 'Road to Rome' aspect of the map as it comes out in both BAS and CNQ. We ran 12 guys last night on the latest compile in CNQ and it was bloody gorgeous fighting all along the map. The village, mainly the church is key to both gametypes. As for BAS, I think it is vital that both teams dedicate to defense of their middle, #2 bases. You almost have to prepare for firetruck runs to your #1 and #3s when needed because loss of your #2 is almost certain catastrophe.

Along the same lines, talking about 'D'. It is often times advisable that if you are spawned in your teams #3 base, to stay IN the base. One man who can grab rockets and climb to the turret section can do some damage for awhile against enemy tanks and wreck havoc on jeep/foot troops. This has proven very effective at holding R3 in beta play.

More work to do over the next couple days. I hope for a Friday/Saturday release. I have the wheat models I was waiting on so I need to implement them and test their impact. IF they work, that gives me the resources to do more sculpting of terrain and cover.

[Leadmagnet]

well, his messages are only slightly longer than Druid's though....



looking forward to playing the new map.



Lead

[ScrapyardBob]

We appreciate the efforts, Slyk.

I feel bad for the fellow... he got 3 massive missives from me last night in PMs that ya'll didn't see. It's a lot of massive give/take at this point on any structural additions or additional trees & rocks. Most of the fine tuning involves moving a tree / bush slightly, or bending the terrain mesh slightly to smooth out something lumpy. Fixing the shelling of bases using the stationary guns is proving tricky. Some have been fixed, some shots are still possible. Slyk is still adjusting weapon clips in the key treelines.

If there were oodles of brushes to spare, I'd be interested in closing off the trainyard during BAS gameplay. Unfortunately, it's a wide open area behind the russian spawn hill, which would be very difficult to close off. Still, any players who run around in the trainyard really aren't helping either side to win during a BAS round.

Originally, I think the BAS gameplay was favoring the russians based on what I could imagine in the Feb 5th release. Now that the pillbox 45mm gun is removed during BAS, the middle of the map is more of an even contest.

I think infantry now has a chance to survive encounters with tanks in nearly all areas of the map. There are still a few spots where infantry will end up as roadkill, but most spots have cover within sprinting distance. Taking tanks up the middle is likely to be a losing proposition, tanks will probably want to utilize the flank approaches.

Lots of sniper vantage points on the map. I may take time at lunch today to think about possible sniper vantage points.

[Slyk]

There are some naked lanes, like going into R3. I'll clump that up a bit with a couple rocks/bushes. Trying to keep a balance between performance, gameplay, and realistic looks takes a lot on big maps. Some naked zones you just have to assume the Russians would have cleared, while in others, more cover will trash framerates. I'm lousy at pre-planning my maps...and I like it that way... but it does create these challenges of tweaking it just right or maximizing framerates. Woe is me...but I am enjoying this one.

[ScrapyardBob]

Sniper roosts (not an exhaustive list by any means):

A1. Town church tower.

This is the one that almost everyone will think of. Both teams can hold this position to their advantage. Covers all compass points. There's been some foliage added to reduce the effectiveness of this vantage point. Such as the trees / rocks on the S side of town, allowing infantry to slip out of the swamp and into town.

Any gunners on the russian 45mm overlooking the swamp are sniper-fodder from this location. Also tough to exit the bunker entrances behind that gun if german snipers are in the church tower.

There should be a few more slats removed on the W side of the tower.

A2. North end of the "moat" road.

Not really a great sniper spot, but you can cause a little havoc for either side. Or at least pick off snipers in the church tower from an unexpected direction.

G1. Bunker exit SW of town or pine tree in corner.

There are rocks/trees that you can lay down behind to get a position on any church tower snipers and the SW side of town. You may find it better to go to the pine tree a bit south of there to snipe at the tower. You can also attack the R1 swamp 45mm gun position, but that gunner can return fire.

G2. G1 pak gun hilltop

German snipers holed up on this hill will be able to cover the G1 area and pick off snipers on the hill to the east. It's not a great spot but it is a ridgeline with moderate advantage.

A bush on the S side of the pak gun would provide more cover for infantry as they attempt to slip along the south fence and down into the G1 river area.

G3. The G3 base hill.

A commanding view of the pillbox trenches and the exit from the R3 base area. Lots of trees, lots of flat spots. Lots of ways to escape retribution.

G4. The russian spawn hill

Allows you to look down into the trainyard from multiple vantage points.

R1. Trench on SE hill by stone bridge.

A natural spot to snipe G1 / G2 / G2 pak / stone bridge area. Vulnerable to return fire from the G2 pak gunner. A closely related spot is the tank scrape on the hill nearby. Snipers can easily retreat into the bunker tunnel, or slip across the hill into the thick foliage around the water pump. So I suspect germans will have a difficult time keeping russian snipers off of this hill.

R2. Trench at NE end of field by german spawn.

A brave russian can sit here and plonk shots down into the german spawn. The sniping is best done by not being in the trenches (rather lay on the NE side). This allows you to fade away to the NE into the river area with lots of cover (and multiple escape paths).

R3. Trench on hilltop W of R3 (or the house W of R3)

Great view of the G3 hilltop. A few places to hide up here.

R4. Trenchworks by russian spawn.

Lots of hiding spots with a pretty clear view of the entire town.

[Hellfighter]

Sniper roosts .....

Lately I've been CTF'ng on a Barb 2 server almost entirely as a sniper. And as I imagined, this map is turning out to be superb sniper terrain.

I find the moat road is a superb German sniper spot for slaughtering ruskiz in the back as they pass by into the center village, or even go over the bridge to peel off to the side lane in a jeep. I took a very heavy toll on the enemy repeatedly while in this position. The ideal spot is below the elevated road crest at hedge just by the 'moat' bridge on the German side of the elevation.... but you must remain below the crest or barely peeking above it... in this case you can pick of rusky snipers and strollers in the trenchworks on the opposite side. Take the shots at long range always since upon respawn they'll have a very hard time figuring out your location from the cam view as they died. After half a dozen kills fall back to the very end of the moat road to pick off someone that might be searching for you with revenge on mind!

The best Rusky sniper spot I found again taking a stunning toll on the enemy is at the south end of the trenchworks- but not in them.... like a tank's hull down position on a hill, try this out as a sniper so to speak. But from this spot you can pick of a jeep driver, force his passengers to bail out then pick them off at very long range... you can also see germand running into the church from which you can deduce they are going into the tower...blam- so ends their tower adventure before they start aiming there.... I've even shot half track divers through driver slits as they enter the village. All because these drivers are moving in a straight enough line toward your spot for you to take careful aim. The spot is great for assisting your side in close quarter fights the church area of the village. If you take this spot pickup a rocket laucher when you spawn.... the only jerries likely to kill you here will be those speeding through your sniper killzone exiting the village in a vehicle and they are likely speeding to run you over.

A follow up forward spot to this, once you see the enemy in defensive/camping mode, is on the opposite side of the village next to the hill on your left.... either expose yourself a bit to pick off jerries appearing on the hill crest as they leave their base, or stay on the blind side of the hill and pick off jerries passing through the center village in their backs.

Best rusky spot # 2 is behind [not in]the pillbox in the gun emplacement area overlooking the German base.

In each of these cases, figure out a place to fall back on and stay alive once you've stirred up the hornet's nest enough to draw considerable enemy attention intent on vapourising you. In this situation the end of 'Saving Private Ryan' comes to mind when the paras have their fall back spots in their 'Alamo' with the shout "Displace!!!" ie, 'get the hell out of here!'



This post has been edited by Hellfighter: 02/09/06 2:38pm

[Slyk]

"Final" is done. Waiting for file posting and mirrors. Sometime today.