Why we are at war against terrorism Options

[lithium]

[realdeal]

[Blakjak]

I don't understand why people blame Clinton and his administration for this mess. Shit happens in every President's term, whether it's a war, terorist attack, depression, and so on. Did Clinton cut defense spending, yes, but so have lot's of presidents in our past. Such things are inevitable. Could 9/11 been prevented? Maybe, but imho I believe if you are resourceful and daring enough, any attack can be carried out. The true test of Bush's resovle came not before or when the planes hit the towers but his response to the attacks. Afghanistan got what was coming to them, but Iraq is a whole other problem. Jimmy Carter tried to rescue the hostages but failed. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon were all faced with containing Communism and only did marginal until Nixon finally realized it didnt work and introduced his detente policy- of course only after the U.S. sent billions of dollars to 2nd and 3rd world countries trying to prevent the spread of Communism only to have that money essentially stolen and used for other things. What I find most disturbing about this whole upcoming election is how much attention is being given to Iraq and how relatively little is being devoted to domestic policy. Personally I don't give a shit about Iraq anymore, I've had enough. There are much more concerning issues to me happening in my city and state rather than some fucked up 3rd world country on the other side of the world.

[Druid]

Lithium that would of been me.
There is a rather big difference between calling someone dumb and calling what they said dumb.

I just get tired of all the finger pointing at Bush and his administration, 90% of which people are either unwilling or unable to back up their reason for.

The idea he's responsible because it happened on HIS watch is simple view for a very complex problem. Go back and read my post again, there were warning signs of a POSSIBLE attack for close to ten years. No one did anything, but the fact is no one really could of done anything or it's very doubtful.
We are at incredible risk for the simple fact we live in the freest society in the world.
It's so easy for people to play monday morning quarterback. Go back and read my post listing all the warning signs. It would be very easy for someone to now say "Look we knew all of this, something should of or could of been done".
After the fact, it's very easy to pick the relevant intelligence information which related to al-Qaeda and say here is what we knew and should of acted on. You have to remember the dozen items I listed where out of probably millions of pieces of intelligence information over the last 10 years.

Here are some of the issues nobody seems to be talking about.
This is just my opinion so take it or leave it.
9-11 is the largest single loss of life on American soil since the revolutionary war. ( Pearl Harbor doesn't count as Hawaii wasn't a state until 18 years after the Japanese attack )
The single biggest mistake concerning terrorism was until 9-11 it was viewed as a legal problem and terrorist where seen as criminals.
This should of changed after the Khobar Towers bombing which killed 19 and wounded almost 400. The people responsible where charged with murder. This didn't go near far enough as it didn't go after the people ( al-Qaeda ) and counties who assisted them.
9-11 points to a failure by our security and intelligence communities. A large part of the failure was not their fault but do to the fact , by law they are limited when it comes to sharing information. Part of this problem was fixed with the patriot act.
The war on terror almost always comes down to a political debate because of the striking difference on how both side would handle the situation. I'm not a big Bush fan but I fully support what he's done so far about the war on terror. He made a very important distinction no one has made before. He changed the view of terrorism being simply a criminal act to classify countries who support and harbor terrorist as one and the same. This is exactly what should of been done long ago.

[lithium]

My bad Real. Disregard what I said about name-calling. Sorry.
I saw that you are in NY. I know that town well. I use to live in Rego Park just next to Queens Plaza Mall and before that Flashing and Greenpoint (Brooklyn)

[Da_Rat]

Great Work Guys.........FUCK Kerry the long face fag

Rat

[Hard Drive]

Druid quote:
I just get tired of all the finger pointing at Bush and his administration, 90% of which people are either unwilling or unable to back up their reason for.


I know that people are giving Bush hell about the terror attacks and I might be one of them. But I am pissed off because he did not go after the right person. Sadam did not create those terror attacks. He might of supported yeah, but so did so many Americans because we do not know where all of our money goes to when we purchase things from conv. stores like gas or what ever. That terror attack that happened on the trade center was planned for a long time. The US can not stop every terror attack. And I cant listen to a man who wants to play God and think he can stop all terror attacks. This War on Terror campaign is a crock of shit.

Like I said before, Bush hasn't got the guy really responsible for it.


As for what you said Rat, Bush is nothing but a little beety eyed fucker who made some wrong decision.

[Silver]

[Hard Drive]

I dont see it.

[Bargod]

If you want to get REALLY technical about it, what caused 9/11 was WW1, the same war that created Hitler's Germany. Yes, this might sound crazy, but if you are a historian, you would realize that after WW1 the western powers divided up the Ottoman Empire. Actually, we could go back further, but I think WW1 is far enough for now. The middle east was a single empire back then divided into what we might today call clans (I don't know what they called it). Then, after WW1, the western powers divvied up the area into arbitrary countries that they took ran as "colonies". This created much havoc, much as the breakup of the Soviet Union has created havoc in Eastern Europe.
Osama Bin Laden, and Al Qaeda's main goal is to recapture the Ottoman Empire and more. They want all the lands that were once ruled by the Muslims. This would include all the land up into Spain. So, regardless who is the leader of any Western country, the goal is the same. So much blame is cast around that people lose site of the fact that the real villian is Osama and AQ.
Since I mentioned being able to go back before WW1, we could go back to the crusades. They are fighting a VERY old war. A war that they see as never having ended. This war started before the US existed!
What needs to be done to win the war is to stop blaming each other and focus on the real problem.

[Druid]

Wow I'm very impessive Bargod.
Your a little off base with some of your facts but your point is still very valid.
WW1 wouldn't be the cause, the ottoman empire began it's major decline in the 17th century. What was divided up in the Treaty of Sevres was little more than land once occupied by the former Ottoman empire, there wasn't really an empire left.
An interesting point which goes to the heart of your post.
I think everyone knows about the Holocaust commited by the Germans.
Yet the second biggest Holocaust in the last century goes completely unnoticed.
The Armenian Holocaust also known as the Christian Holocaust claimed the lives of 1.5 - 2.5 million people, 3.5 million if you add the number killed in the few years leading up to it. This was done when the Moslem leader ( can't remember his name ) ruled all Christians in the Ottoman Empire, should be put to death.

[Silver]

[Char]

I am new here, and this appears to be older thread but I felt like I had to say something.

Why are we at war against terrorism. I start with a quote.

"The seeds of totalitarian regimes are nurtured by misery and want. They spread and grow in the evil soil of poverty and strife. They reach their full growth when the hope of a people for a better life has died. We must keep that hope alive.
The free peoples of the world look to us for support in maintaining their freedoms.
If we falter in our leadership, we may endanger the peace of the world -- and we shall surely endanger the welfare of our own nation.
Great responsibilities have been placed upon us by the swift movement of events.
I am confident that the Congress will face these responsibilities squarely."
Truman Doctrine 1947

The words spoken here are true today as they were true in Truman's day. Change totalitarianism to terrorism.

Islam is the worlds only major religion that has not undergone reform (except for maybe become more militant and oppressive) This war is between the old and the new. The Middle East struggles to hold onto old obsolete ideas while the world around them is evolving. The lack of freedom and liberty in the Middle East is the main cause for the rise of terrorism. They hate the fact that we have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and that woman are eqal to men. They are taught to hate and kill the infadels or the people who do not agree with their twisted religion. They oppress their people and blame Western Culture for demise. The only hope they give their people is that if they strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up or hijack planes and use them as missiles, and to walk besides allah in paradise with their 72 virgins.
I believe that the only hope for peace is to destroy militant Islam and show Arabs that there is a better way and a better life through freedom, liberty, and capitolism.

Did you know the average unemployment rate of Arab countries in 20-30 percent.
Take the U.S. and Japan.
U.S. avg rate what 5.7% 5.4 right now
Japan avg rate about 5% 4.9 right now

France and Germany are a cross between socialism and capitolism.
France and Germany have avg unemployment rates of about 9% on a good day

I believe if the Arab people had some freedom, liberty, and capitolism they would spend more time working and living life and less time to think about how to kill infadels.

We are in the middle of WW4. it will be long and bloddy and many will die on both side. It may be a generation or 2 before we see the outcome of this battle. But I believe we need to fight this battle now and on the turf.

We cannot count on some of our traditional allies. I've always believed that Western Europe was our closest allies, in spite of some cultural differences. But it is now clear from the oil for food fiasco that our so called allies such as France have been aiding and arming our enemies and undermininding American interests. I no longer believe that some traditional allies (the ones Jon Kerry thinks he can bring on board) should no longer be considered allies.


As for the comments on social issues such as healthcare, welfare, and schools you need to take a hard look at the Constitution. And if you have a hard time understanding its intent you need to take a look at the Federalist papers. %85 of the principles in the Fed papers are in the Constitution and are the best source in learning the intent of the founders when composing the Constitution. When I was in school they barely went over the Constitution and did not even mention the Federalist papers.

I think someone said that if you can't make it in your own then you are screwed. I hate break it to you but the whole purpose are designed so that people can make it on their own without the govenment. If you believe that govenment is supposed to take care of you then you live in the country. If you believe that it is governments responsibility to take care of you tan you probably do not believe in the Constitution or the principles and values on which it was founded.

Char

[Ghslongpole14]

Yeah, before anybody says anything, I know this is REAL late but i watched the 9/11 videos again and they really pissed me off.

Lithium, that first post you wrote pissed me off real bad because you pin the blame on Bush because "it was under his watch". What the ? Like Druid said (i think) FDR should be responsible for pearl harbor? If you were president and some crazy-ass extremist blew up the White House, would it be fair to say it's partially your fault because it was under your watch? Come on, man!

I am kinda scared about what would happen if Kerry is president and there is another attack. I'm only 15 and not really a political genius, but i can smell his pussy from down here in NC! Bush had the balls to hunt down Osama and Saddam on their turf, and here SURE AS HELL bagged Saddam like the little BIOTCH he is! Sure people died, but that's what happens during war. Plus, he probably saved a helluva lot of lives in the process. Sure the US hasn't bagged Osama, but if I had the resources he does and lived in cave country, I could probably hide my ass pretty well, too. Hell, he's probably somewhere else, like Pakistan, hanging out while his dialysis machine chugs away!

Anyway, that's a 15 year old's view of the political world and it's probaly incorrect, but that's my two cents!

PS: KERRY!

[Ghslongpole14]

Sorry if that offends any people in particular because I respect everybody's POV, but that post by Lithium, in my opinion, was incredibly off.