Tuchola Forest Strategies and Tactics Options

[ScrapyardBob]

Note: Some of this information will change over time as things change during the beta testing phase. But it's still close enough to final so we can start discussing tactics and strategy.

Here's the map. Each one links to a 1600x1200 version.


Base Assault map

[ScrapyardBob]

Key strategies / thoughts:

1) Intel, communication, and coordinated movement are very important to both offense and defense. Otherwise you'll end up with enemy vehicles behind your lines (or in your spawn) or your assault force will run straight into an ambush.

2) The early tank blitz is very powerful. I've seen more then a few 8-minute rounds because one team moved forward with 5-6 tanks and 3-5 infantry in jeeps in one large mass. They simply rolled from base to base as a unified assault force. Tanks stood off and shelled from a distance while infantry slipped into enemy positions to steal tanks or disrupt reinforcements.

Counter: Intel and a willingness to engage the enemy.

I've seen a lot of teams *avoid* contact with the initial enemy blitz. That's a sure way to lose. Each team needs 1-3 players to split off from the main starting blitz and chase after and disrupt the enemy blitz

Last night, the germans were mounting an assault force on Russian #1, all of the german tanks were down around the R1 field. Infantry on the R1 pak45, etc. 2-3 russians were all that it took to break up the formation and disrupt the attack. One russian got on the Hill 13 mortar and got 5 kills. The other two russians snuck around the flanks, stayed hidden, and killed infantry / tanks.

Alternate Counter: One to three defenders at the start of the round

Sometimes, for the want of a single defender, battles are lost.

3) Stop, look, and listen

When you spawn, look around. Do you see enemy infiltrators in the spawn? Do you hear tanks being stolen? Do you hear enemy gunfire?

Infantry need to look both ways before crossing open terrain. You can usually spot most ambushes before you enter the killzone.

4) Never leave home without an anti-tank round and a satchel

Anti-tank rounds in the spawn areas are on a 10sec respawn timer. Farther forward, you're going to be waiting 30 seconds for rounds to respawn and you'll only get 1 round at a time instead of 3-4.

I've seen more then one player die a senseless death because they didn't pack anti-tank rounds for the trip. Or they had to watch helplessly as a tank rolled by without noticing them (missing the chance of a perfect ambush).

5) Assume that pak positions are "live"

Assaulting a live pak position from the front is suicidal. Get your infantry flanking the pak positions and use snipers to kill the gunner. A well timed arty barrage is also a good way to make the gunner run for cover.

Be sure to communicate with your team if you know that a particular pak gun is live.

[Silver]

germans owned last night by employing a mix of hvy tanks, infty, half tracks/jeeps.

that won games

[ScrapyardBob]

Control of the river is probably the key strategy. If the Russians can control that Southeast Bridge in the South Forest, they deny an attack route to the Germans. Same thing for the river ford in the farm area and the North Bridge.

Three to six Russians, spread North-South along the river, can either destroy advancing armor columns or at least weaken them severely as they attempt to cross the river.

I think Russians need to be aggressive about holding the (3) main river crossings.

[ScrapyardBob]

Squad-based combat (Coordination and Communication)

2-5 players, traveling together with the same common goal, using a mix of weapons can roll over most opposition that they encounter. Especially when the opposition is traveling lone-wolf style with no backup support.

We saw this a lot tonight on Tuchola during the late hours. Teams traveling together in packs of 2-6 players were crushing any and all opposition in their way. They would roll a base, plant it, most of the team would move on to the next base while 1-2 players guarded the plant.

Or two players teaming up to shut down a bottleneck. One player on the pak gun (Oh You) while the other player hides in an ambush position to support the pak gun. As the pak gun draws fire, the 2nd player ambushes the armor column from behind. A good pair can get in 4-12 kills before they get routed out of their positions.

...

Etiquette for traveling in a pack.

If you're at the head of the pack, you're on point. That means you need to alert your followers about threats and you need to stay just ahead of the pack. (Too far ahead and your pack won't be able to provide support.) I've seen a lot of assaults fail because the fast tanks and jeeps outran the slow tanks. Fast tanks should sprint-and-listen. Get ahead a little bit, then stop and look/listen while the slower tanks catch up. Jeeps should act as scouts, clearing the way for the armor column.

If you're at the tail of the pack, keep up but make sure the pack doesn't get attacked from behind. As the rest of the pack digs in to assault a base you should take up a position that guards their 6 o'clock. Especially if you're in a light tank that won't do much damage against a base.

[HammaTime]

G3 has some unique challenges to defenders and attackers. If the Russians leave it as the last base to be destroyed, the round will most likely end in a draw. The approaches to G3 can be defended with ease.

On the other hand, the wonderful terrain around G3 makes it a prime spot for infiltrators to melt away when defenders appear. I managed to single-handedly drop G3, plant and destroy the base simply because I was patient. I would shell the base and when defenders arrived, I would melt into the background. They'd look around casually and move on. My shelling would resume, more would come, the same cursory inspection and they would leave. When I planted, I exited the base and hid in the trench. When the *single* defender arrived, I killed him as he tried to defuse.

The key here for the Germans is not to let G3 remain without defenders and if you see the base being rocked, find and kill the attackers. That means getting out of your tanks and **hunting** your quarry. It is incredibly easy at G3 to dart unseen around a rock as a tank rolls around it.

If the base is being planted, get multiple defensive troops there fast. Set up a perimeter and keep your eyes open until the bomb has been defused. With this base, you can't turn your back as soon as you see the bomb being defused. The planter can be out of sight, but within a satchel or grenade throw of the base.

R2 has some similar characteristics. The multiple paths that lead to that base mean multiple troops can be hiding in wait just past the entrance to the path. One defender rushing into that path is useless as there are three possible routes in which the attacker can flee, only to turn and kill you as you return to the base. I've seen the Ruskies try to defend that base with their tanks backed up against the base looking out, oblivious to the path entrance *BEHIND* their tanks.

[dienamic]

Hamma made a good point that is useful in any stratagy. Patience is the key. My biggest problem personally is I tend to charge into a situation or ambush by those with more patience than myself. Oh ya, generally by Scrappy or Thomas grrrrrrrrrrrr.

I agree that the G3 should be the utmost target for the Russians. The base is easily defended by the Germans and can be entered from different angles. I once entered the base by exiting a jeep from the road above. I landed right on the stairs going down to the lower level. It was way cool. Sort of like entering Russian2 on Barb. I learned that trick from Silver and use it often.

On the other hand I think the russian 2 and 3 are easily assaulted by way of wooded paths. A german with "patience can easily travel between the bases capturing tanks, panzers and eventually bases. You do however have to choose your battles.

Russian 1 should always have a defender around because for some reason, the Russians are spawned away from this base a majority of the time. If you have noobs on this team they will make sure all your jeeps, tanks etc will not be available to get back to R1 quickly.

It is the utmost importance to work together as a team to take objectives. I personally like to work with Thomas or Goose becuase they can really put the team work down. So find someone to pard up with and play smart. You are no good to anyone if you keep dying without accomplishing anything.

Never leave your base without bazookas and satchels. These items may mean your success in winning the game. And finally....get on vent and have fun playing. It can also make a difference.

DieNaMic out...peace all

[ScrapyardBob]

I've done similar to Hammatime on G3 as well.

I started my attack towards G3 as part of a larger force that ran into trouble while assaulting up the road. I went to ground in the North V2 Launch Site area and was overlooked by the Germans. The Germans then formed up and moved out along the North Road.

Rather then engage (way outnumbered and no place to retreat to), I communicated in team chat about the assault force. Then I started moving from tree to tree and from rock to rock along the north wall until I got up behind the defensive positions. Finally, I reached the large rock near the minefield on Hill 23 (west of G3).

From there, I was able to belly up and drop arty on the G3 base. Every 2 minutes, the Germans would come scurrying towards G3 looking for attackers. Sure enough, they'd glance around, then drive away.

Once the base was cracked open, I waited on teammates to arrive. They arrived in a jeep and planted. I stayed in my hiding spot, ready to ambush any German reinforcements on the western approach. With 35-40 sec left on the clock, I dropped my arty on the base again and killed someone who was slipping in using the southeast approach to G3.

...

Note: We've seen the same sort of approach used on Russian #3 on the Barbarossa server. German infantry will hide in the houses near R3 and drop arty on it to crack it open.

[HammaTime]

LOL, actually, that rock is big enough to hide a tank behind! I was amazed to discover how long I could sit there idling. And that path below the rock is phenomenal, Scrap. A real gem that I only discovered as I was trying to escape the area after blowing the base.

Going from there to the German spawn I was able to steal a tank and quickly appreciated how well the German spawn has been designed. I could spawn kill, but it wasn't long before the respawners were firing rockets at me through the slit, moving on my flank and generally ending any fun I might have had.

My only complaint at this point is satchel spawns. Perhaps you can help me find more satchels. I only know of single spawn points in both the Russian and German spawn points. Perhaps there are some that I've missed near the bases, but I haven't found them. Would it be possible to set some satchels near the outlying bases?

This post has been edited by HammaTime: 04/14/06 12:34pm

[ScrapyardBob]

That little U-shaped path that you found on the W side of the road is there to give infantry another route up to G3 to reinforce. Originally, there was going to be a pak40 position on the N end of that path to give infantry some heavy guns to retake the G3 hilltop.

CNQ gameplay also moves right down that road (from G3 to the V2 site to the ammo shelters).

Satchel spawns (beta 2):

- G1 pak gun
- the two larger G spawn bunkers
- building east of R1 on the hill
- ammo tunnel in the R spawn
- R2 "mortar" bunker
- S Forest Bunker (I think)
- Glacier Pass, north side defensive positions
- W Farm Bunker
- NE Farm Bunker

I need to add one more satchel spawn into the R spawn area, maybe two. They'll be inside of the two bunkers that aren't detailed yet. I don't remember if I added one in the Farm area.

[ScrapyardBob]

I saw a little game chat tonight talking about how the map definitely rewards teamwork and how lone-wolf players may not be as effective. The regulars on the map are definitely starting to learn that lesson.

Another funny comment was "Those KV1s are hunting in packs!". I'd guess that coming over the hill into a trio of KV1s was a rude surprise for somebody.

Germans will need to relearn how to defend G1 in the next beta release. The G3 base and G2 base were also weakened slightly.

The early tank blitz needs to be spotted and disrupted by a small squad of players. We managed that tonight by doing the following:

- One player went and got on the SE Bridge pak45 position. As the Germans rolled through the S Forest intersection, the pak45 opened fire which caused them to scatter and dig in.

- A jeep that was headed towards the front via the Farm area turned and came south into the South Forest. The infantry dismounted *behind* the German armor column and proceeded to destroy tanks left and right.

So a handful of infantry stopped 5-8 german players who could've rolled straight into Russian #1 and the rest of the Russian bases.

[James]

Hey theres a problem in the map on the fence it has a normal long fence part but no stump holding it up it is hanging from nowere

[ScrapyardBob]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib.../3-0/index.html

Useful for reading up on offensive and defensive operations (Chapter 7 and 8).

(Please leave feedback in the beta testing threads for map glitches.)

[Oh You]

Or two players teaming up to shut down a bottleneck. One player on the pak gun (Oh You) while the other player hides in an ambush position to support the pak gun. As the pak gun draws fire, the 2nd player ambushes the armor column from behind. A good pair can get in 4-12 kills before they get routed out of their positions.

Thankyou for that one Bob, made my day. We had a good run that one time when you were hidin in the South Forest, and i was up on the pak, but the best time was when you were on the pak, and i was snipin and bazookaing from behind that big rock. I got lots of kills there, untill i decided to go scout out what was happening and ran into a heavy .

[ScrapyardBob]

Updated maps for Beta #2 (all three link to higher res images):