This is to publicly denounce the banning of my son -- MormonMarine -- by the MOB council. I am saddened by the harsh punishment handed down by the council on such a petty thing as using the "Gay" word in a tag. A removal from the Regs -- yes, but a ban from all servers??? I would be interested to hear from people who have played with MormonMarine and get their thoughts.

MormonTrooper

Please do not remove this post and bury it in the MOB section!!

big deal he said someone was gay...
trooper u got a nice kid

I do not know the whole story but i'm prety sure that is not the only reason.

I have never had A problem with marine. But I really think the problem is that it seems that almost once every couple weeks there is a problem with your son on one of our servers. Like I said every time I have played with him he never did anything that bothered me. But it seems when others arent around is when he starts acting up.

I believe the example used was that if someone else had done what he had done ie: {Iamgay}DolphinGirl{Iamgay}, then the person would have been immediately banned. However, because Mormon Marine did it, he should get a second chance. Well, exactly how many second chances should he get. He was kicked countless times over the last year or so. He was banned once before. You said you would punish him and that there wouldn't be any more problems. Well, there are lots of other kids here that haven't been kicked or banned at all. So the excuse he is just a kid doesn't fly very far. As for his one last chance, well, he used all of thos up. That was his last chance.
Just to clarify that that there has been a long history of this, please reference this link. Note that it is dated November 15th of 2005. This is probably the first time a ban on Mormon Marine was called for and given. It seems that not much has changed since then. Exactly why do you think he should get another chance. So he can make us look stupid again? Or is it because he is a kid? Too bad. The decision has been made. He is no longer allowed to play on any UO servers.
We have decided that since he hasn't caused any trouble on the cod2 servers, he will be allowed to play there. However, one screw up and he will be banned from those as well.
So please stop acting so indignant. He brought this on himself. We did not change the rules around just so we could ban him. The rules have been there and he has broken them time and again. That much should be obvious.

Not what you said here.

this shit is blown out of proportion and i'm purely sick of it. kicking out of regs would have sufficed you guys took it too far. end of story for me.

By who? DG would have said something but not banned him for it. I have entered with {MOB} so and so sux ass or is gay. i wasnt kicked. ask thomas or goose or hatred what i have smurfed as.



Why tease the kid, why say look we will let you play a game not may other ppl that you like/know play?

Seeing as Trooper(the Father) can still play, and Marine(the son) is banned. That should be acceptable for the father since he is still capable of playing on the servers.

Trooper, It seems as if your son does not listen to MOB nor your warnings. He must realize that he will have reprocussions for his actions. You should not always look to bail him out of these situations. Let him see what happens when he acts the way he does on servers.

Silver, you may also recall that after the stat padding incident, Marine accused DG of stat padding while she was spawn killing. She did not like it. Your response was:



Everyone knows the ban isn't for calling a player in our server gay one time. It is for continually breaking the rules. The last time he was banned we were told there would be no more problems. But every couple of weeks we get somebody else complaining about Marine. Enough is enough. We talked about banning him multiple times in the last year. So now it's actually done. I honestly can't believe that anyone other than Marine and Trooper think this is too harsh. Especially Silver, who offered to ban them in the past.

PWND!

Bargod,

My biggest problems with this decision are that it was:

A. Done completely in private in the Mob rather than Regs Private Section.

B. When the topic was public, there was no clear consensus. It seemed that the people usually playing UO with Marine weren't the ones pushing to have him banned.

C. The link that you provided dating back to November was about someone interupting the game and causing teamkills. That was a situation that I believe warranted a ban or at least a long kick. In this case, however, it was two kids changing their names. The two issues are not the same.

All of that said,Mob has the right to do what it pleases. I disagree with the decision in this case. More importantly, I disagree with the way the decision was made. I believe that loss of tags and all that it entails would have been completely sufficient. Perhaps more than sufficient for a kid that wants to belong and has always been ready to help out (with base practice, HHS practice, 2x2 practice etc).

I will reiterate that I have been on servers many times with Marine. He is high strung, and he likes to goof off sometimes. But he has always been responsive to people correcting him.

miked

The only part of the link I was referencing was where Silver referred to Marine as an "asshole". Just pointing out that Silver is trying to act like he was always gung ho for Marine.
So, how many chances are enough? I guess the 10 or so he's been given weren't enough?

Really? leave the post out b4 that I stuck up for them...

funny bar, you bring this up... this is the exact BS that I left MOB for... I said fuck it because I was tired of defending him atm, it was trooper that said that not marine (must reread the topic bud). reagardless do w/e you guys want as always {MOB} is always correct never wrong. lmao...

oh btw how come its always the squeaky wheel that gets the oil? so far I understand only a FEW {MOB} have a problem with him, but yet decision is made by ppl who dont know him.

dont twist my words if ur gonna quote me do it right.

owned? lol...

Bargod should not have to defend this decision to anyone, especially the regs. MOB is the decider in these issues, and MOB has decided. That is final. His behavior was an embarassment to {MOB} tags and the matter has been voted on...decisively.

Silver, don't be a hypocrite.

I dont really care what you guys do, i dont want to hear about comets comming and I say NO to the kool aid.

this kid has had at least 6 warnings-infact i believe one of them was a stern letter saying one more incident and hes gone.3 more later and now look?! wtf people.

Saucy,

Thanks for making my underlying point so well. However, I didn't ask Bargod to defend the decision at all. Mob can do as it pleases. I pointed out that it was made in an exclusive rather than inclusive manner and without consensus and with limited input from Regs..

Prior to posting, I had discussed some of these issues with Bargod. But you've proven to me that the situation in Mob is not one I wish to be involved in as a Reg. Since my opinions don't matter anyway, the lack of them certainly won't be missed.

I, however, will miss some members of Mob and most members of Regs. I have come to consider them friends over the past few months.

miked

wow Miked?

To Miked and those of you who don't understand how this clan operates:

The rule here is majority rules. We have a private "Council" section where members of the clan can discuss and vote on issues that are brought up for consideration. In this case of MormonMarine, we had so many different postings about issues with MM that fatigue started to set in among council members.

There are a lot of issues that come before the council. We are here to play a game and have fun, not to have divisive conversations. The more times the name MM came before the council, the more we saw responses like that voiced by Silver "fuck em ban them." Although, I can't remember ANYONE else voicing such a strong negative response.

I have been supportive of the Mormons since their name first came before the council. I was very impressed when Trooper bought a second copy and promised to play alongside his son as a resolution to one of the earliest problems with Marine. That was a great solution. However, it soon became apparent - and the IPFreely situation illustrated this - that Marine was having his friends play using his dad's copy of the game with NO PARENTAL GUIDANCE. Calling someone "gay" was indeed a minor offense, but in this case, it was a mere reflection of a larger issue - an issue that Trooper had promised to rectify.

The last vote on kicking MM from the servers was not even close - 90% voted for the ban. NINETY PERCENT!! This was a decision made my all members of MOB who wished to voice their opinion.

End of story.

I think what miked was talking about is the fact that marine was a reg and the topic was brought into mob private section so therefor the regs had no say in what happened to one of there own. I believe that's what he was getting at.

So there will be no misunderstanding I moved this to the ban forum since thats where it belongs ,
not the "Introduce Yourself" forum where it was originally posted. Not sure what kind of accusation your trying to make with your comment about not burying it in the MOB section. We have always welcomed people to post, questioning why they were kicked or banned.
We go so far to even suggest that in our server rules.
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...?showtopic=9802
The idea we will try to bury this in the MOB section is a little off base, wouldn't you agree?

As for your characterization that Mormon Marine was banned for simply calling someone gay. The truth is, you know as well as anyone, it's was simply ONE more in a long list of examples showing his inability to play on the server without causing problems.
Here is a short list.
1) How about the fact not so long ago he was banned for repeatedly disrupting the server
http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...71&t=9528&st=15
The SINGLE reason he didn't stay banned right then is because at the time both of you played under the same GUID, so banning him resulted in you getting banned. I find it rather hypocritical that you would now question our decision to ban him.
2) The dozen+ times he's been kicked for misbehaving on the server
3) How about the time Bargod warned him and Marines response was "Fuck MOB"

Even after all that we gave him another chance & another chance, there for a while it he was behaving himself. Then he's back to the same kind of behavior that previously got him banned.
He's back doing things to disrupt the game server.

4) How about more recently where he was asked more than once not to repeatedly join & leave the vent server as flood the server with player join & player left messages, yet Marine contined to do just that.

You can't possibly deny the number of times he's been warned.
As you've been the one who has had to come in here on more than one occasion to defend or aplogize for MM's actions. In the end, he was givin more 2nd chances than any other player I can think of.
Right up until we decided enough is enough.

Hamma,

I do not dispute the right of Mob to ban anyone at anytime. My issue is with the lack of voice afforded to Regs in the matter. This issue has been summarily dismissed by some MOB members. I do thank you for providing more information about the process that was observed.

Many years ago, I went to college to study journalism. One of the most important things that I learned had nothing to do with journalism and everything to do with group dynamics and management. The concept was participatory management and the object was to listen to everyone and build a consensus for those issues that could be handled that way.

That experience was and is important to me. I try to live by it. At work, I manage peopIe and machines responsible for supporting more than $100 million in research. I want to make sure that everyone there gets a voice. Sometimes a situation requires immediate action, but usually there is an opportunity for people to be heard.

No one will ever agree with every decision anyone makes. But if people feel like they have a voice and someone is listening. They are usually willing to accept that decision.

miked

Miked
Thanks for making my underlying point so well. However, I didn't ask Bargod to defend the decision at all. Mob can do as it pleases. I pointed out that it was made in an exclusive rather than inclusive manner and without consensus and with limited input from Regs..

Limited input, The topic was public for almost a week & was on page #4 prior to it being moved to the private forum.
You repled to the topic twice.
Yet you complain you didn't have any input on the subject?

Druid,

You are correct. I spoke. But the topic was moved and my voice was silenced.

Further, Saucy made it clear that my opinion was irrelevant. MOB didn't want to hear any complaints, " Bargod should not have to defend this decision to anyone, especially the regs. MOB is the decider in these issues, and MOB has decided. That is final."

Now, I don't make the mistake of assuming that Saucy speaks for MOB, but not a single MOB member has disputed his post.

I have never had issue with either you or Bargod and I know that both of you work hard to keep this ship afloat. I respect the work that you guys do.

miked

If you read all of the postings on this subject -- you will truly get some insight as to how the minds to be work. Have you stopped to wonder why so many people are quiting the clan? I will address some of the incorrect statements made in this thread;

• The incident in November 2005 was before we where even in the MOB clan and was resolved by numerous emails and discussion on how to act on a public server. Case closed
• As far as being kicked more than a dozen times -- this is a total fabrication. Marine was kicked once by Cross of Iron with out warning!! Yes -- he was shooting at people on his team when they where in tanks -- more as sign of friendship. Once he was told not to do it anymore -- he stopped
• Did Marine say F*ck MOB -- no he did not. Marine does not swear -- ever!!! This was in OCT-NOV 2005 and it was said by me! I believe a public apology was given and accepted by your clan.
• I have seen postings by people from MOB that Marine nor I have ever played with or against -- how can a person comment when they have no basis.
• The "Gay" issue was not directed at IPFreely -- it was just a joke! Like the following book titles; "Rusty bed Springs -- by IP Nightly or Yellow Snow by IP Freely" This is where the name came from. As far as the gay part -- it is language used by Middle Schoolers to tease one another. So lighten up!
• Let's remember that the topic was started by a NON-MOB Clan Member.
• There may have been some friction with Silver at one point -- but we where able to work it out over Vent and we are now all good friends.
• I am not defending my sons actions nor would I be mad if he was kicked from the Regs, but being banned from all the servers is a little harsh. I admit he is a difficult kid at times, but he has the highest regard for all of the players he has had the opportunity to play with. I can not tell you how many times he would interrupt my work to tell me that Hamma, Cross, Canuck, Rapist, Radiation and the such where in the stock maps and that I needed to come in and join the game.

Marine is a very mellow kid, but does have a lot of energy -- if you get my meaning. Myself on the other hand is not afraid of confrontation or speaking my mind. To give you some insight -- I played semi-pro Football and Arena ball -- so I can get a little amped up at times -- especially when it comes to my family. Those who have played with me know that I go straight up the middle regardless of my health. If anyone is or has been offended by me or my son I apologize.

MT

Mormon Trooper, I appologize if I got it wrong. Back then you were both playing under the name Mormon Trooper. But, if the case is that you were the one who said it, well you should have been the one we were discussing banning the first time. I believe H8tred was there with me, and he has been one of the most outspoken people about wanting a ban for Marine (who we were lead to believe it was) since that time.
The point you agree with and argue about at the same time is that "sure he steps out of line sometimes" but why should he be banned. Just kick him out of regs, right? Well, kicking out of regs is secondary becuase he was in the process of what was pretty clearly leading to a ban for breaking server rules on numerous occasions.
Why is this such a hard concept for people to understand.

And I know that you and Silver have become good friends. He's got a lot of good friends. I just don't like the fact that he has tried to portray himself as something he is or was not. He was trying to look like the hero of the story, while in the past admitting that he thought your kid was an "asshole" and also agreeing to a ban after he determined Marine inulted DG.
Me and H8tred have been forthright. I told you in your welcome into the regs that I would wipe the slate clean. I did. However the actions of Marine did not change, so I had to go back to my original impression that he was not the type of person we needed on our servers.

Hero? LMAO...

the things i could say, but I dont really care.

i think u r right saucy and most of the people who posted it dont really matter what u think no more including silver and i think what done is done

Why don't you do everyone a favor
If you have something to say, then by all means start a new topic and say it already.
Enough with your thinly veiled insinuations.

Funny thing is- how this thread was about banning Marine into a Lets bash Silver contest......
Some of you it seems have turned it in to a hobby....Think maybe you all need to realize its a game. Who cares what Silver or the rest of you think. Everyone is allowed their opinions and dont need to be bashed for them. Think some of you need a new hobby.


why stoop to that level of bashing people..... You all need to realize ITS A GAME....
No need for him to start a new topic....

give me a break

To All: I have been sitting back reading this thread for the last day. I am the one in the beginning who voted for MormanMarine, spoke to his father and thought he had changed and would be good for the regs. The cudakid and morman trooper are good friends along with a few other whom seem to be on the same channel playing on servers together and involved in matches together.

I was on vent when MormanMarine was jumping channels and told him to stop ( a bunch of us were in a mini tournament and it was very annoying). I cannont speak for Morman's action while playing and switching names because I have not seen him do that. I always enjoyed gaming with MormonMarine, he was a good team player and always pleasant when I was on.

We must realize that if the MOB members got wind of what was going on there had to have been some complaints. I realize that after he got on as a reg that there were some other players annoyed with his actions.

There are rules and expectations when becoming involved with MOB and it is clear in the section. When we as members break the rules there will be reprecussions. We must realize that all our actions are a reflection of the whole. How can we expect others to follow the rules if we don't? Organizations are run because they are organized.

Everyday I go to work and know that if I err, I can be up on charges criminally or through our Professional Standards Branch, I am accountable for me.

To Silver and DG- I have always thought of you both as friends, but I don't agree with you both leaving then coming and making comments bringing dissention and creating friction with the clan. You both have friends here, but you have made your intentions known. We all wish you the best of luck with your new endeavours but please respect the forums here. DG, I know your comments were backing your husband but no one is out trying to bash Silver. His comments were not required in this thread and he decided to make them known, when we all had knowledge that earlier in the year he wanted MormonMarine kicked. You can't play both sides of the fence, when it's in your best interest- recruiting.

Yes my husband had every right posting in here when his name was brought up. I aint playing the both sides of anything if this wasn't open for discussion it would be in A regs or Mob private section! I have the right to post. And as for recruiting we never approached any one they have approached us GET THE FACTS RIGHT before you post

Please don't take this the wrong way.... why are you posting here if you arent a member anymore? You decided to leave. Yet you are still here. I don't get it.... Why do you care?

As for everyone else (and i don't know the kid) he's been warned, warned again, etc. The ban is waranted. Perhaps since he IS A KID we should look at a specific time frame that he is banned. Whatever that may be 1 month 6 months 1yr I don't know what the number is but we would do well to teach a child a lesson not shun him completely because he has been disruptive. Thus far he has had no consequnces to his actions.

Junkie

Your right I dont care about the topic. Just tired of the bashing. And just cause I choose to leave doesn't mean I can't post. And why do you care so much you are ONLY A REG

Im not a member of MOB, but I completely agree with Junkie here. Yes this kid should have a ban. And yes, it should be for some period of time. I dont think this kid meant real harm to the clan, he was just a kid being a kid. But a temporary ban is definately needed to teach him a lesson. The fact that his father is in Regs and he was in Regs, He should have some sort of chance to redeem himself down the road as he matures.

DG don't you remember when you were a REG?? Wasn't that long ago was it? By the way I love being involved with the Regs! As always some people like to stir the pot, your comment to Genocide shows proves my point. As I told you in my PM, come in here and post, but coming in here and insulting people only allows others to see your true colors.

Guess if I was being insulted first I wouldn't have to respond. He said "I wasn't a Member" So that means I should post FUCK THAT

DG I actually spend as much time here as anyone else (almost) regardless of classification. I'm sorry that being a [Reg] qualifies as a subspecies to you but I do still have an interest here as I am still a MEMBER. Be it [Reg] or otherwise. My point was it takes two ppl/sides to argue. You decided to leave. Silver decided to leave. There are obviously issues. Walk away -argument stops- regardless of who is right/wrong.

Junkie

Yeah, that's pretty fucked up. I've been biting my tongue on this thread because I don't know the MormonMarine history. But for DG to just out and say "you are ONLY A REG" really sinks in below the skin. Yes, I've felt that I have little or no voice at MOB but you don't have to come here after you leave the clan and start shoving down everyone's throats.

I think everyone has the right to post where it's available, but don't come back to the place you left and start leaving piles of shit around.

Again, I have no fucking idea what's going on and why everyone's leaving but if it's so much better, why is everyone still coming around here? I like you all (everyone that's resigned) and respect you but don't shit on me on your way out the fucking door.

Then he should NOT HAVE INSULTED ME FIRST BY SAYING I AM NOT A MEMBER I HATE PEOPLE THAT DIS SHIT OUT BUT CANT HANDLE A RESPONE

As I said it takes two to argue.... I've said my piece....DG if you have issues with what they/or me are saying PM or start another thread please so we can take care of the issue brought up in this thread. We should get back to MM. What do you think about a time frame on the ban?

Junkie

Don't go and insult an entire group of people because he insulted you or your status on these forums. Think about it. Two weeks ago, you probably would've banned someone if they had posted something like that.

He insulted Everyone thats not a member with what he said to me....HOW HYPOCRITICAL can you be. I was directing that comment to him anyway just like he did to me. BUNCH 'O HYPOCRITS
I wouldn't have banned for something like that unless its volgure. That was a kid messing around. I dont care what you all choose to do about it.

LATER IM DONE WITH THIS Bunch of shit in this thread




Should have stayed on topic before you decided to insult me

My intent was not to insult non members or even DG. If there are nonmembers out there that think it was my intent I'm sorry. Contact me and I'll send you a cookie. Back to the topic.

Should we consider a time frame on the ban?

Junkie

I would say first ban = 2 weeks. Probation after that. If it occurs again, 2 months.

Ban his guid for a bit.

let him play on his dads.

if he screws up there, than the point will finally hit home. Troop bought a separate copy for Marine, so things would stay on the up and up. Honorable. Now things have changed. they are on a down swing. Sad but true. it is a twenty dollar lesson, sort of. It is not like his game is defunct and cannot be played. He just must go somewhere else to play and act the fool. Again, youth is not an excuse for ignorance. If he is 14-15 years old, he is scarily close to driving an automobile, and that is crazy super nuts scary.

-------------------------------

I to think a temporary ban is needed. For at least 4 weeks though, c'mon, its his second ban. Also, Im sure these things that he is doing probably will not accur again, but it will be something new. He needs to be on pins and needles apon a return.

Regs should not have been upset with any decision made by MOB. Dont know for sure, but from what I hear, the main difference between MOB and Regs is that MOB members pay for the servers and Regs dont. If that is indeed the case, MOB has the right to conduct themselfes and clan any way they seem fit. Be glad they even allow their tags to go out to people for free membership. You need to act as if you were a MOB member when wearing Regs tags.

If I were in MOB and I had all these Regs leaving and starting shit because of this issue, I would be very pissed and want all of the people banned. I like most of you guys and its hard to say, but really man. Its like your shitting where you eat. You like to play on MOB servers and liked to be Regs, but because a few members got a hair up their ass and wanted to pull away, you are following them? Where is your loyalty to the MOB?

I tend to try to mediate things when ppl get upset and you have two different view points. I have no vested interest in either way. I do think there's room for both sides to meet in the middle so that everyone feels that they got what was fair. That's why I suggested a specific time frame on the ban. It teaches him he has to follow rules and it punishes him for being disrespectful etc. With having his tags removed already this would be a fair punishment for both sides to accept. Again, I dont know the specific amount of time that would be right. I would think at least a month. If that doesnt work then perhaps ban him for good. He's never had any recourse to his actions. That's why it hasnt changed. But I'm just a [Reg] what would I know?

Junkie