i had big problems with this particular gentlemen this morning after i took down his G2 very quickly (it was a 1 v 1 at the time..) on barb. he was at my R3 and wouldn't have made it back in time to stop the base from exploding so he killed himself and respawned in time to try and defuse the base (i killed him and prevented it) but i told him its not allowed to go spec or kill yourself to respawn and get new ammo/defend a base. he commenced to say FU! I DON'T F'ING CARE! I WILL DO WHAT I WANT! and i told him how i was a former MOB member, and i know the rules (after he accused me of not knowing the rules...blahblah) and he just kept attacking me. everytime i'd die he'd say shit like "AWHH POOR LIPTON COMPUTER NERD" and stuff.



since he said he told me he didn't care if he was banned from anything, please can someone do the honors?



guid= 47fbded3



thanks in advance







-Lip



P.S. - i think it was around...11 eastern?

who is this "lipton" guy....

I dont like that dude either. Just something about him.

WHAT!!!! Since when are you not allowed to kill yourself to get back to a base???? Judging by the number of suicides to top players in BA, I suspect I'm not the only one who does it. Come on. I consider this a selfless team move to kill yourself to try and defend. I tell people in Vent to do it!

MoD

Very chessy tactic

It's not allowed in twl, so some people never do it at all. I'm not sure about specific site rules. I think that there are ethical issues with suicides and team kills to get more ammo or specifically defend a base. But again, I do not know what the site rules say.

Heck if you take a tank up the North Hill in Kursk when Cross is on you don't need to worry about Suiciding. You'll be dead soon enough anyway.

miked

is there not a rule in cassino where you can't go into spec and come back so you don't die? i've seen people be reprimanded for it on barb as well ! plus he was a total faggot towards me for no reason. i told him its not the right thing to, so he decided to attack me for the rest of my stay on barb. i couldn't enjoy myself the entire time, he just created strife. please get rid of him.

Are you guys talking about a "spec suicide", or a regular one with your own gernade, or both? I've never done the first, but I don't see the problem with the second. If I keep a gernade and am willing to blow myself to pieces with it, I don't see how that tactic is "lame" or "wrong" anymore than learning to park tanks at various points in the map and shooting from one side to the other is "lame" or "wrong", or using paks to do same, or spawn killing, or exploiting the spawn logic by parking stuff in the way, or tank hiding. All legit stratagies within the confines of the game IMO. Popping out of the game and back in is different, but if I got a gernade, I should be able to use it any way I want.

I'm getting off subject of Lips overall complaint here, but I just never heard of this before.

MoD

Yes VERY lame!!!!!

I used to do the "suicide to respawn near the base" trick for defusing until I got involved with TWL matches where it is illegal to kill yourself for any reason and illegal to team kill when a respawn gets the team member arty or spawns him to defuse a base. If you are going to play on TWL you just need to learn to play all the time by the TWL rules or you find yourself doing something wrong in a match.

I agree it's cheesy, too. While I end up killing myself a lot in Barbarossa, it's purely through stupidity. I don't think I've ever done it to defend or defuse.

Another thing I've seen people do (and we used to ban people for doing it on our MFD Bashers MOH:AA server) is jump in and out of spec to find a hidden sniper or some other player that was confounding another player. We considered that a weak move.

Yeah, I think that if you have TWL which can police it, fine. But as I say, I've been playing a year and a half on regular servers, and never knew of it being an issue, or that anyone would disapprove of it. Calling it "lame" is because you've played TWL and they have a rule against it. We allow spawn killing on our servers, MANY don't, they'd call that "lame". What is lame is subjective.

At least I do know now, because I was wishing to get involved in TWL and I might have made that mistake!

MoD

Big difference between intentional suicide to defuse a bomb & spawn killing. If you have a short memory, I was not the first to call it lame/cheesy. If your memory is even shorter than that, MOD, you'll remember that I was a member of mob for a year, I'm very well aware of the spawnkilling rules. Seems you have alot to say all of a sudden now that you're a part of mob.

Whatever dude. I missed the fact that your tags were gone, and you left to be honest. I thought I you were still a MOB member, I missed all the changes.

My reply was directed at both the lame/cheesy comments. I'm just saying I've played for a long time, never hid that I did it, even said it on the forum and in vent, and this is the first I've heard of it being something people didn't like. And it continues to be my opinion that it is subjective what tactic is lame/cheesy when it is part of the game, as opposed to a true hack/exploit or switching between game and spec mode. I suppose the rule against it is to add "realism" since people really can't kill themselves and repawn in better location, but neither do soliders respawn in front in a hut again and again while someone with a tank shoots them! Like I say, one person's great strategy is another person lame or cheesy shortcut. Some people think MOB allowing spawn killing is lame. Others "suicide gernade spawning". Some people think using paks across the map is lame. I was just trying to defend myself for using a tactic that I've seen others do and never heard a negative comment about after a long period of gaming.

MoD

p.s. I checked my stats. In 608 games, I've suicided a total of 29 times, most of which would have been unintentional, whether it be a fight, or arty on myself. I'm just saying on the few occasions I did do it, I didn't consider it a lamo shortcut...I thought it was a good sacrifice for the better of the team.

Man, I must be Mister Klutz as I have a ton of suicides. Of course, many of mine are from my dropped satchel or grenade as I've tried to defend a plant. I've never suicided on purpose to get back to a respawn point. However, on these very forums I've seen those who do that be praised as being a "team player."

One of the many reasons we allow spawn killing is because we don't want to have to police those who are doing it. We'd be spending all our time kicking people. It is part of the game. I feel the exact same way as far as suicide to move to respawn point. Who cares!?! Unless you are playing a TWL match where they have strict rules against it, have at it.

And Lipton, as far as trying to police the servers as an ex-MOB[Reg] - well, we see how far that got you! LOL. Maybe BsS stands for Be a Suicide Stopper. Maybe you can hand out some cool badges.

Naw, you don't need no stinkin' badges!

why must you attack me hamma? so just because i'm not in MOB means i can't post about wrong doings in the server? alright, what the hell ever.

You can justify it however you want but the simple fact remains.
It's chessy tactic
It's lame tactic
It goes against the way the game was made to be played.
It's in the same class as people who spec jump when they are out of ammo or about to die.
It's not much different then saying I'm going to teleport back to my spawn because thats where IO need to be.

Would you consider it a fair tactic if there was a way to misuse a function of the game to bunny hop yourself closer to the enemy base? I wouldn't think so but thats exactly what you're doing when you suicide for the sole reason of getting yourself back to your base to defusing a bomb.
This is the whole reason it's considered illegal in match play, where as all the other examples listed here
Vehicle hiding
Using paks to take down bases
Spawn killing
are not only fair game on our server but also in match play.

No it's doesn't rank up their with a cheat but I think most people wouldn't consider it fair either.
People don't win or lose based on their kills or deaths only bases destroyed.
So suiciding doesn't hurt your team at all but it's help them a lot if your using it as a way to quickly teleport across the map to try & defuse a base.

Attacking you??? Man, if you think that is attacking you, you better never be attacked! Either that, or I better take some humor lessons. Should I have laced my comment with smiley faces, the LOL wasn't enough? Are you not a movie fan? Did you not get the reference to Blazing Saddles ... which was in itself a reference to The Treasure of the Sierra Madre?

The full quote, which I felt was a humorous way of viewing your attempts to police the server without any power to affect change: "Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."

See, this just proves that I am a klutz. I was simply trying to support MoD who didn't know that some thought suicide/teleportation was a bad thing. That's the problem with "unwritten rules," some know them and others don't.

I don't know a lot of unwritten rules myself and, therefore, I wanted to offer some support to MoD. For example, I'm such a noob, I never knew that we had to all line up in an orderly fashion at an RPG spawn point and wait for the person in front of us to get their assigned rocket first. I always just hit F a bunch of times until I got one, and then I moved on. Through a lengthy discussion in the forum, I came to understand that this was considered inappropriate and rude. Oops. My bad.

Now, I do know about jumping in and out of spec mode and I do know that this is frowned upon, but I also know that it is not enforceable by the community here. We had someone who was using spec mode to target people when he was on the Foy 88. It was suggested that this was a bannable offense, but the community wouldn't side with that decision. However, if I see someone doing that, I'm sure as hell going to kick their ass.

You obviously weren't dealing with a spec jumper in your 1v1 battle because if your opponent had jumped into spec mode, the game would have immediately been a draw.

I have to admit I was puzzled that you would bring this matter to the forums. I mean, you were playing one on one with a guy. Kind of like playing cards with a guy who peaks at your cards. You can whine about it, but why not just quit playing with him?

In your original post you said you "know the rules," and yet, there is no published rule against what he was doing. He accurately accused you of not knowing the rules. Now, I could see banning his ass if he was swearing at you, but your post indicates that he was using abbreviations and that isn't a bannable offense, just kind of cheesy. LOL!

As for Sir Lancelot of Camelot, when he isn't watching Monty Python, he is occassionally on our server playing Barb. He has completed 59 rounds, but manages to die more than he kills. You two have similar k:d ratios, but he has played double the rounds you have since the stats have been reset. The odd thing in the stats is his kills to suicide ratio is actually better than yours. His average is .08 and yours is .116 - you suicide a lot more than he does! I've admitted that I am a klutz, but my ratio is .014.

So, this leaves me a bit confused. If we were to ban him for a high suicide rate, we'd have to ban most everyone on the server. Should we ban him because he was argumentative and used abbreviations?

i don't have any power over people, yes. but does that mean i shouldn't report anything when i see it happen elsewhere? i seem to remember Pancakes (meowman) reporting quite a large deal of things before he was ever in MOB. as did scruff.



but since i "have no power over it" i won't report anything more. sorry i tried to help out the servers a bit still. god damn.

Sometimes it's just damn hard to be appreciated, Lip. I guess if we're on their servers just act like anyone else & not give a damn what happens.


Well ya better get your new recruits up to date then

Something I think I should clarify.
Even though I don't agree with the tactic of suiciding as a quick way to return to base to defuse a bomb.
I don't put it in the same class as cheating or anything else worth kicking or banning a player for.
I only think it's fair to call the player on it, as they are doing something they shouldn't.
Same as the people who care more about their individual stats then if their team wins or losses.

Well as a newbie to the forums it’s interesting to see all of this discussion on the tactic of killing you self to go back and defend a base.

For my 2 cents worth I've been playing on the Mob servers for over a year now and I have used this tactic my self to get back and defend base. Know what seems strange to me is I always looked at it as me making a sacrifice for the team because quite often I would be on a run and be close to trying to plant an enemy base which would be better for my score. But instead when I re spawn I'm giving up that opportunity to further my own agenda I favor of keeping my team alive. So I guess I look at it different than some. I think it is a commendable action to abandon your attack to return as quickly as possible to defend a base. It's allot easier to just plow ahead and ignore the calls from your teammates to fall back. And its as simple as this if you are at the other end of the map and your a team player allot of time the only way to get back in time to help your team is to kill your self.

I would like to add that if I think I at all have enough time to get back without killing my self I will but sometimes their is no choice.



I guess it bothers me more when people are calling the team to fall back because an imp base is going down and nobody returns but me and the guy that was there. It seems there are too many people that pay no attention to the team’s situation. I would like to see them called out rather than someone who sacrifices themselves to help keep their team in the match.




In regards to dropping into spectator mode to find a sniper or to se if a base has someone in it defending I agree that is not a respectable way to play.





P.S. I want it clear that I respect the fact hat people have different opinions on this as far as I’m concerned discussion is good. So theirs my 2 cents on this one take or leave it.

Tactics aside,

The dude was acting like an ass. There is no reason to be disrespectfull. I think this is a big deal. Yes, Lippy went away, but he is still a friend, at least to a bunch of us. To have a dude acting like an ass and showing poor gaming manners is usually a throwable offense. A ban? I have no idea. I am just mentioning that there were 2 things wrong, not just 1.

and with a game with a lot of people in it, killing yourself isn't that big of a deal. when its 1 v 1 and its basically a rush to get all the bases, its a lot more of a big deal.

and THANK YOU FLAT, that is exactly what i was just going to say.

Interesting discussion...

I'll agree entirely with MoD and NoClass on this one... Although I don't think I've ever done it - as in most cases you can grab a jeep and make it back to a base in time to defuse regardless of where you are on the map. I definitely don't have a problem with it and I would even consider it an honourable action.


I think long-distance shelling is FAR more lame and cheesy, and should thus be a bannable offense.

Commit suacide when far away to defuse bunker cause the entire team dosen't know any better.... I never tought of commiting suacide for the pourpase of saving a base, mostly its arty that i drop on myself... its a interesting idea... but usualy I'll comit suacide on purpase so that canuck won't get the kill, and have a ratio 4:1(k:d) lol

Yeah me tooo....

wait, I am good at that....

LOL

I know my stats probably look like I do it...but I just get sached all the time!!! I never seem to get out of the base before it blows-----> Something for me to work on.

Lip....Is your homework done?? Don't worry, I'll keep an eye out for him!!! I would think a warn followed by a kick might teach a lesson. All in all, we still love yea Lip:) Thanks for letting us know.

LORD J----->You know I know...LOL

Cudamom

i always do my homework, thanks mom #2!

I think long-distance shelling is FAR more lame and cheesy, and should thus be a bannable offense.


[/quote]

Definitely more lame.

[quote name='SKTemplarRD' date='09/25/06 5:27pm' post='125925']
I think long-distance shelling is FAR more lame and cheesy, and should thus be a bannable offense.


[/quote]

Definitely more lame.

[/quote]



And now this thread is winding down, I stand by my opinion that what is lame and cheesy is a matter of opinion, not fact. As we can see, many hate long distance shelling. About 75% of public servers kick for spawn killing. My opinion...you make like some of these methods, you may not. But it remains nothing but opinion if they are lame and cheesy when they can be done within the game without cheats or exploiting a glitch.

The negative against the "gernade suicide" thing seem to be because they don't mesh with TWL rules. However, TWL rules are not scriptures of God. They are rules that work within a game where everyone on a team is using voice communication, and thus, can cooridinate defence and offence. A public server game means often not knowing if 5 people are falling back to try and save a base, or none. Thus, what works for TWL, what makes sense for TWL, and what is enforcable in TWL doesn't necessarily make sense for public based games.

Is it "gernade suiciding" a realistic manuveur...no. But we turn off spawn killing on a public server. That's not realisitic either. And neither is killing at spawn points. But we allow it, and that's the way it is. Personally, I really dispise getting hit by a far away pak right in the spawn! That's my main beef. But unless we make a clear rule against it, then it's fair game because it's in the game.

MoD

funny in all my years of playing (probably have played this and original CoD more then 90% of the players here..) i can't remember a single server banning people for spawn-killing. of course, spawnkilling with a tank is pretty much the lowest low you can go....i mean besides not being able to play the game AT ALL outside of a tank. thats the most annoying thing to me, and why i never play stocks or TF hardly. and precisely why i love barb, i can run around a lot easier and do a lot more damage with a jeep/mosin on barb then any other map. tank whores in my opinion are what bring the game to a severe low

Barb, IMHO, is the BEST balanced map going as for fairness between those who like tanks, and those who like being on foot. It's why it is my favorite map. In fact, I was going to say it is perfectly balanced, but actually that's not true, because now that so many people know every trick there is, I think the Russians have an advantage because of their multiple long-distance pak capabilities compared to the Germans being limited to one pak, and the Russians can even long distance pak THAT gun!

I'm surprised you don't like TF though. I thought the foot soldiers had the advange there, with so many nook and crannies to hide.

MoD

p.s. Don't know how you managed to not find servers that don't like spawn killing. What they normally do though is activate spawn protection.
I remember getting kicked from After Hourz Barb for spawn killing when I dropped arty on a spawn house. I was new to the game at the time and had no clue why I'd been kicked!

one of the german heavies can hit everything, as well as the leftmost german light tanks can hit a few spots as well.

but that is just me...

I really need to learn those shots, im tired of sneaking to the bases and stealing a tank...of course i have found what im good at on both teams so i stick to that...

Look in the topic titled "Barb. tactics & stratagies" By ScrapyardBob

There's ALOT of useful info. in there.

I think barb was the worst for tank spawn killing, personally. It was so easy to get into the german tank spawn and kill at will. Hell, that's how Silver and DG got most of their kills. And I'm not trash talking. I'm being honest. We just loved to get back to that german tank spawn and destroy. I just wasn't nearly as good at it as they were. But damn did they beat people down in the german spawn!

..well, NoobCanon is getting quite good at it.

Ok, so after all this ( I did read all 3 pages)

Suicide to respawn near a planted base is lame but not bannable, right?

Its not a tactic I use, but I am curious.

It is not lame.

It is not a bannable offense.

It always amazes and amuses me when people mistake their opinions for absolute, irrefutable truth.
What is and is not lame is an entirely subjective thing. Things I have heard called lame at one time or another:
- hopping
- flopping (going prone when fired upon)
- sniping
- playing dead
- the old "primed satchel in the bunker" trick
- long distance pak shots
- spawn killing
- calling arty on spawn
- camping
- spray-and-pray
- hiding captured enemy tanks
- parking to block doors
- running people over with jeeps
- using the MG of an enemy tank before stealing it
- using ventrilo
- turning off team kills
- turning on team kills
- using the mp44
- hiding until a tank passes and you can ambush it from behind
- use of smoke grenades

Arguing about what is or is not lame is pointless.

What is NOT pointless is discussion about what the server rules should be. To the best of my knowlege, MOB rules do not state anywhere that suicide (for whatever reason) is forbidden, so kicking, much less banning, for it would seem unreasonable.
Think it should be against the rules? Fine. Lobby to have a new server rule enacted banning it. But don't expect that because you think it's lame, everybody else should or will avoid doing it.

Personally, i like a server with a few rules as possible. You have to balance the "pain in the ass" factor; which is a greater pain in the ass? Puting up with a behaviour, or having to police and enforce a ban against it. Seems to me that suicides are a minor problem at worst, and banning them would be next to impossible to enforce.

"- hiding until a tank passes and you can ambush it from behind"

lame? - lol



Strange people you have been playing with, Sticky!

That list is all some serious lamesauce...especially sniping...freaking hax