amen!

Well, this is pretty much what happened to any kind of conversation in MOB over the last few months where anyone disagreed in any way with DG or Silver. Only DG could get so upset over a fact like "not being a member" and considerate some kind of horrible insult. I think CudaMom pretty much summed up what I was trying to say quite clearly. And she never accused Silver of directly recruiting from our servers or forums or anything, he knows better than to do that. But his intentions behind his post were that he was clearly trying to act like we are all horrible people, and we did something that he would never do. That is why he left. Because we are bad people and his shit doesn't stink. Basically he was doing some revisionist history. I don't care much for that.

Whoa! I think that some more research may be in order Nothing.

I see people complaining when DG says that they are just a REG, I see the same people saying nothing when a MOB member says that MOB doesn't have to defend its actions, "especially to REGS."

Where's my loyalty to MOB? Interesting thought. Where's MOB's loyalty to REGS? REGS do contribute to paying for the servers. Regs started the most successful TWL team in MOB (HHS). REGS try to help police the servers. I personally have backed decisions that I didn't agree with for the good of the clan.

There are MOB members who try to involve and respect REGS, Bargod is a good example. I very much respect him for that. Others I think see them more in the utilitarian sense. They keep the servers full, provide some funding and some help. And still others see them as people who don't matter at all. When more than a few people fall into that category, organizations decline and breakdown.

Loyalty you ask. My rich uncle (SAM) taught me some years ago that authority can be delegated, responsibility can't and loyalty must to be earned. I believe that everyone starts out equal. But that's just me. I believe that everyone's opinion matters until they prove otherwise. I believe that decisions should be open and clear.

For the record I am not leaving because of a "wild hair." I am leaving because I've been told that my opinions don't matter and I have someplace else to go.

I have a friend who once left a job with a postit on a monitor that said 'GONE." Sadly, I'm far too passionate and verbose for that.

miked

Regs are required to Donate so I dont know where you were going with that one.

And if you were a MOB member.....Thats right your not so maybe you should back off ....And stop trying to stir shit up

And as MOB loyality to them: Personally, I was loyal to MOB as far as bring a MOB member. I have seen MOB members in this very thread posting what another MOB member has been said in a private forum. Is that loyality?

Did I tell you I was thinking about buying a boat?

It was stated as a insult I didn't take it anyway

And as for Silver leaving he and some members couldn't get along....They were all wrong as much as Silver but thats neither here nor there. He left

Hey Mike,

Let me get this right. Your basically upset that MOB made a decision without taking your vote or all Regs vote? I believe that My Congressman and State Senators make decisions without asking me as well. They are in office to make decisions on My behalf. MOB runs the clan and Regs help them. MOB makes the decisions and Regs help enforce them, right? Where does it say anywhere that MOB needs to check with Regs before making Banning decisions? I have seen many bans go in place right away after someone posted a thread about breaking some rules in the past and I dont remember hearing all this comotion about it. Just curious to me that this happed to a Regs member and there were some Regs that it seems as if they were already on their way out. Sounds like a helpful reason to try to part ways and others like yourself are along for the wrong reasons.

Really, if there were guys that were Regs and are no longer Regs for reasons of how the clan was running the clan, I dont see how these guys would want to turn in their tags, but still want to play on the clan's servers? Sounds like they are just following certain people. What happens when or if that new clan does not make it long, are all these guys going to want to join MOB again? That was what I was touching on earlier. This is all really some stupid bullshit for some to leave a clan over. There is definately more behind it than the ban of this guy.

This is totally off topic, but where did your friend work, mike. I worked at a place where the supervisor left in the middle of the shift. People were looking all over for him. All he left was a post it on his monitor saying "gone fishin'". Best walk out I've ever seen.

OK, back on topic. The regs oppinions count on a lot of topics. This was one MOB took upon itself. There is a very long history with MM and I don't think very many regs are fully aware of that history. This wasn't discussed amoung us while we were voting, but that is why I didn't insist it be brought to the regs for their oppinions. We did get to see quite a few oppinions of regs in the original complaint thread, however, and I did consider them. But since many people who thought he deserved another warning weren't around for previous warnings, I had to go with my own belief that he will continue to cause problems as long as we let him play on the server.

I dont really know how to quote this site thing too well, so I will mention here my comments to what you said.

1. I was only stating what I heard from some Regs about not paying. Is there Regs that dont donate?

2. What the hell are you talking about here DG. I really liked playing with you and dealing with you all the time, but becasue I disagree on whats happening here you throw me under the bus? First, I dont have to back off shit thats in the general forum and not in the MOB area as you pointed out earler. Second, you seem to be the one stirring the pot here. Im only replying my opinion here. I am part of this community and do voice my opinion. I dont EXPECT MOB to take my voice here as what they should or shouldnt do, only shed my little opinion on it. I think that kid was a real ass when I played him/her. Then to use remarks about Gay to someone because they didnt like them or got owned by them. There should be some punishment, Regs or not! I remember hearing allot of Regs pissed when someone called you a Bitch once. But that was ok because you were still part of the clan then right?

3. No MOB members would be here posting anything if some of you guys were not trying so hard to start these problems within the clan itself. Being in a clan means to respect their rules, if you dont like it, leave. No need to drag other members into your "clan" and post all these arguements on a topic that should have nothing to do with the reason why all of you are leaving.

Any chance of everyone dropping this? It's getting beyond silly at this point. If you want to post about something other than MM go to another topic, start a thread, write a book, whatever. I think this has gotten as much usefull feedback as it is going to get. The rest is name calling etc. By the way.. MY DADDY CAN BEAT UP YOUR DADDY!!!!!!!

Junkie

I agree,

I dont want to make enemies from old friends here. I was only voicing my opinion here and seems like im pissing people off. The decision was made to ban the kid and it is final. Everything we all say here is pointless.

Drama, drama, drama...

wtf is everyone panties in a bunch for? I said he was a nice kid... he didnt start my house on fire or kill my dog so hes a nice kid. I dont remember calling him an asshole, I may have but I think I called everyone an asshole at least once. I stuck up for him more then once, including with cross...

as for me recruiting... BAH!

its not my clan, its OUR clan... hell its more of what we wanted as a team...
most of this shit is what it is shit. we dont want trouble with MOB, I like most ppl, but I also dont like the insuination from Bar and cuda that I am riding the fence and not taking a side. I took a side, and left. easy as that. I dont see why the problems...

but here it is, silver this silver that. we just dont see eye to eye on things and we could do better alone.

MM isnt a bad kid, hes not pushing drugs, he is a lil hyper but hey so was I. my son isnt too much younger then him and my son acts about the same.

ppl need to chill, relax and comprehend that you ALL PUT TOO MUCH THOUGHT INTO THIS SHIT! STOP OVER THINKING!

MM is a good kid, he hasnt hacked MOB, or BsS for that matter.... is a great player.... WTF is the deal? do you really want a kid to act like an adult? wtf? being an adult sucks donkey balls, I would much rather see him act like a kid, and maybe a lil bit will rub off on me. something that you guys should learn from.

to everyone in this topic, be a lil immature at times and grow up in other areas.

DRIUD i dont want to stir shit, hell I really loved being in MOB I dont want to cause drama...

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG! now im gonna go post on our forums, they are not pretty, simple and plain to be honest... but it works for us atm.

soon as we get a few more things stright ill drop the dime as to were we are and yall can come and visit!

Miked
According to this post, it is irrelevant what the Regs, any Regs think. Not one single member of MOB has in any way disputed it. I have felt the underlying sentiment of Saucy's post several times over the past few months. Each time I have ignored it. This time I will not. He's right that MOB can do whatever it wants. He may be right that MOB doesn't have to defend or explain its actions to REGS. But he is wrong as to whether or not the actions should be open and clearly explained. They should be open. They should be explained.

This is little more than a repeat of your earlier assertion about having little input on the subject.
The topic was public for a week & was 4 pages long, you even replied to it twice.
Yet you still what to try and claim it wasn't open????
As for the claim the decision wasn't explained, what do you think has been going on in this thread???

You can describe Saucy's post whatever way will make you fell better.
The fact is the end decision was left up to MOB for a variety of reasons.
The biggest being so there could be an open discussion on how to handle the situation, which there couldn't have been in the regs section as most people tend to sit on the fence & not comment if the person can read it.
Keep in mind, right up until the decision was made he still had access to the Regs forum.
Another reason was to get an impartial vote as possible.
Look what’s happened here, even though he had been banned in the past, has been given numerous warning, how many people automatically said "give him one more chance or make excuses for him because he's young", based on nothing more than they game with him. The truth is he's been given more chances than anyone else and his age isn't an excuse.

As for how it's suddenly very fashionable to act as though Regs have no say in anything or are second class citizens. I take personal exception to that as I'm the one who originated the idea of the Regs group & devoted so much of my time & effort in the beginning to making them a reality.
There is a F.A.Q. addressing exactly who & what the regs are. I only mention that because it's apparent there is some confusion. As for the rest of it.
I'll leave those who now wish to complain about now having a say or not meaning anything, with a few thoughts.

When MOB wanted to close Cassino we didn't because there was a handlfull of Regs who wanted to keep it open.
Before any possible changes were made to the servers, we've always asked for input from the Regs.
MOB did everything we could to support those who wanted to participate in Hotel Hot Stuff & BsS by providing the servers for practice & matches.
MOB provided the forums to support the teams.
Yet a handfull of people now want to try and make it as though, they didn't have a voice here or were treated poorly?
That's just crazy.


#######
Note:
When I posted this I though it was quoting Miked's reply, when actaully it was editing it.
So the post I'm quoting from has now been deleted.
#######

Bargod,

For that resignation, he was at either "Defense Weekly," or "Janes".

I am not going to argue MOB's decision. I have stated my thoughts on that.

I have told you and Druid that I think that you guys do a great job of holding things together and keeping them operational. That recognition also goes out to OMM and others, too. I believe that you have been open and forthright in your dealings with me.

The problem for me has nothing to do with the decision that was made. It has everything to do with an attitude that I've seen now a number of times. I have decided to use this issue as an opportunity for change. MOB has that opportunity as well. Until REGS are respected rather than just tolerated by all MOB members this issue will keep coming up. MOB can treat the REGS anyway it wants, but some ways will be more effective than others.

I'm gone, and it makes no difference to me. Heck with the resounding silence from most of REGS and MOB, maybe it makes no difference to anyone at all.

Good luck,

miked

I've been treated very well as a [Reg] although I don't play UO most of the COD2 guys have been great. In fact I've had tons of input on a few things regarding the servers and [Regs] access etc. I think most of the [Regs] who play COD2 would say the same. This is all just silly. Like a bunch of 7 yr olds fighting about being in each other's club. Think about it. It's not that much different....... Later.

Junkie

I can't believe I read this entire thread... it was mildly amusing.

I don't even know why there is an argument regarding this. Marine broke the rules and was consequently banned.

I was the one who used the example of what would happen to someone who used the name {IamGay}*insertMOBmembername*{IamGay}. I was pretty confident that the person would be banned, and without much discussion. Why treat MormonMarine any differently?

The "oh, he's just a kid" excuse doesn't hold any water - especially after he's been warned numerous times about his behaviour.


However, I'm not affilliated with MOB in any way - just my two cents.

I was going to write something, but this is bang on Mike. I especially don't like that MOB decides a Regs fate with no consultation whatsoever with us. We didn't even know they were talking about it.

We have a big vote on Samoan's fates, being told a removal from Regs is incredibly rare, then a week later MOB guys vote by themselves with no input from everyone else to remove MormonM. How does this clan work again?

Hmm, I guess I did say something.

MoD

What r u talking about? Some MOB guys went, and some Regs guys went. I don't know what is going on, but a combination of the two went, and yet you find a reason to single out the Regs who move? I don't follow the logic.

(snipped myself...)

MOD

I really don't understand where you guys got the idea that your oppinions don't count. Are you saying that we don't have the authority to do what we did? Are you familiar with all the times MM has been brought up for bans in the past and we offered "one last chance"? Regs had a chance to have thier say, and still do. We try to do everything we can for regs. I don't know where you guys get the idea that we think you are crap. It just doesn't make any sense. The regs are a group of people that are loyal to our servers and make gaming here fun. So Druid created a private forums for you and we've helped organize competitive teams on ladders.
Would we go through all of this if MOB didn't respect the regs?

*** sigh ***

This thread serves as a perfect example for you, MormonTrooper, of what I was speaking of when I talked about fatigue setting in. Issues brought before the MOB council would often experience just this kind of combativeness.

Hey, miked, I was a journalism major in college too. My first job was with the Boston Globe and then I moved to the Rocky Mountain News in Denver before coming back east. One thing they taught me in j-school was to report accurately. Both you and MoD have widely missed on the history of the MM saga. As Druid so carefully pointed out, this was discussed in a thread in the open public forum for all to see and all to comment on. Once the discussion stretched to fill FOUR pages, it was pulled into the MOB section and a vote was made. I wasn't part of that decision to move the thread, but I'm sure some members felt we were airing a bit too much of our dirty laundry, so to speak.

The vote that was eventually made by MOB members was based in large part on the public discussion that had taken place in the open public forum.

REGS DO MATTER!! Look who we have who used to be Regs! Have you not been reading Bargod's impassioned posts about his history as one of the first Regs? There is a firm commitment to the Regs community here. Unfortunately, there are the rare topics that need to be discussed privately so we can gauge the mood of the full {MOB} members.

If you don't like being a Reg and being part of that community, you are encouraged to inquire about membership in full {MOB}. You also have many avenues for discussing issues that concern you. And trust me, everyone listens. We all have the success of these servers and this clan at heart. We'd be totally fool-hearty if we were to ignore such an important and vital part of the clan.

Everyone acts as if this decision was "life or death" for MormonMarine. Take a deep breath and relax. This may come as a shock to many, but I've been a supporter of both MM and MT since they first started battling here. I play alongside my best mate, Cross of Iron, virtually every night and yet I NEVER witnessed MM doing any of the things that drove people batty. When Cross wasn't playing one day, I saw one minor event that required a warning be sent to both MM and MT. I felt that warning was justified, not because I wanted them banned, but because I wanted them to be aware that their actions were against server policy and the could be banned - something I DIDN'T WANT TO HAPPEN!!

The bottom line here, folks, is that MM has been banned, but I'm sure if he wanted to, he could appeal for a lifting of that ban in the future. What's the big deal with that? All of us respect both MM and MT as top-notch players. When MM behaves himself, his playing skills are EXACTLY what MOB wants on their servers. We have a reputation now as having some of the best competition found on UO BA servers each and every night. If anything, we want that reputation to grow, not diminish.

So, PLEASE, lets get beyond the drama!!

Ok, I should have read everything before I commented. Too late now. Here's my overall impression.

1. MM "may" have been a special case. The problem is, none of this was well communicated to anyone in Regs until after the fact. While the discussions was raging in MOB forums about whether to ban him or not (I guess), all we had was a general forum topic where people did not necessarily know that MM's total ban was being considered.

2. The distinction of MOB and MOB Regs was probably inevitably going to lead to this situation, where we have some MOB saying the Regs are respected, while other tell us to shut our holes (and it has happened long before this thread). And it is inevitable that some Regs focus on the good comments and let the rest roll off their backs, and other Regs focus on the bad comments and feel very insulted by the conscending attitiude and treatment by some MOB. Now, where it goes from here, I am not sure.

3. As pointed out, we did the Samon situation completely dfferently, and his situation was very much the same, because his issues were long standing as well. No matter what anyone says, I see a real contridiction between how two similar situations were handled merely weeks apart.

4. I feel Bar, Druid, and Miked have all made good points. I think others have said things that really insulted me as a Regs. In the end, I'm feeling rather indifferent, but am wondering what is going to be left of this clan in a week or two is someone doesn't try and tighten up the group of those that remain, MOB and MOB Regs alike.

5. Back to the topic, the REAL topic, that I didn't get a chance to fully voice an opinion on. Even though it might not matter, my vote is for a temporary ban to MM of 1 month. This incident, IMO, was more a "tease" than an insult, and hardly deserved a thing, but I subscribe to trying to find a middle of the road solution, so that would be it.

6. Personally, I was just starting to get more involved on Vent, and was going to try and get to know more people because I wanted to join one of the teams. I wonder if I can do that even while voicing an opinion here that doesn't necessarily mesh with others? I don't know. Definately, all this crap is hurting everyone's morale. I suggest again to take that Cassino map, and try and do different things with it for a month, and get feedback, and maybe we'll talk about COD more than internal clan politics for a while.

MoD

I'm amazed at this reaction from some of the regs and actually surprised at no reaction from a few others.Ive only been in mob a short while but i can say that whenever a reg had a problem -done! anytime a reg asked for say ,help to put a twl team together-done! the complaint with Samoan came it was posted for regs to vote -done! instead of getting rid of cassino posted with regs-done! the mm vote in mob was unanimous and we still posted it for the regs before a decision was made -DONE!

you know ,druid , bargod and p,and alot of us for that matter have new Born's, children and families, some of us work 2 jobs or jobs that require travel. these guys take soooo much time to help you guys out , fix the serve problems and basically run things so that we can have FUN playing a game in a hack/idiot free environment.

most of us have seen that alot of cod servers don't take this kind of crap and he would've been gone with out a post being written.banned!

for the bss- never was there any insults thrown your way in-fact the post bargod wrote simply said" whoever is joining bss we wish you the best,feel free to drop by" but no there are like 5 separate argument posts!

once again" GOOD LUCK,WE WISH YOU THE BEST-DROP BY AND VISIT SOMETIME"

I will... Thanks UNDEAD1

MOD... MOB has had hell...

BOM <---- MOB spelled backwords and a bunch of idiots
TLD <----- Great bunch of guys and girl.
split from them.. were did FBI come from anywho?

neither here nor there this is the largest MOB has ever been 4 times what it was. so problems like this will happen. no big deal...

I can sum up this topic in the follwing:

I liked MM as a spunky kid, but how many chances can you get? I voted thumbs up for him, but I go with what my companions voted since they were witnessing first-hand his 'transgressions'. If any good has come out of this, I think maybe he's learned a lesson for life - a growing pain.... push your luck at your own risk. In my opinion MT, the key here is as BG said;



Let's close up this thread; maybe when a newer cod for pc arrives, young MM will be back probably more the wiser in not repeatedly treading on toes.

I have no problem with MormonMarine, but he is ban! Let's close up this thread

I never really use that, so this is a special moment for me... pause... tear... wipe... smile... wave

lol

Sorry, but that's a lie.

The name {Iamgay}I.PFreely{Iam was in use at the SAME TIME that [MFD]IPFreely was on the server...this is far from coincidence, so your assertion that it was some pre-adolescent joking is false. He was clearly trying to belittle a rules-obeying {MOB} regular.

Was that enough to warrant a ban? Not for me to say. Just don't lie about the situation...

Why, in all this, did the person who was so insulted never post?

I don't really see the need for that person to respond. The action by MM was meant to be hurtful. Period. End Of Story. It doesn't even matter who it was targeted against.

This issue is deader than bat at an Ozzy Osbourne concert.

Becuase, as I said in the original thread, IP doesn't really care. I, however, found it in bad taste and felt it was important to bring it to the attention of the powers-that-be.

I don't want to hear about comets coming either. They scare me greatly. All that gas and ice. It could crash into our feeble little planet and KAPLOWWWIIIII we'd be gone....Please tell me there are no comets!!!!! Please!!!!!

Junkie

..................wowwwwwwwww.................................

http://www.break.com/index/meteor_hits_earth.html

SNAP!

Ouch! Looks like that's gonna hurt!! But at least it's not a comet!

Junkie

Since the pot is already boiling.... I might as well add a couple more ingredients....

People may be wondering why Marine has not replied to any of the threads -- this is because his posting privileges have been revoked!! It becomes real hard to defend yourself when you have been muted by the powers to be.

I am a firm believer in people learning lessons -- but not all people learn the same way. Marines is a kid with a lot of energy and can by trying at times -- but he would give you his last nickle if you needed it. He does not do drugs, swear, or get into trouble. He is very committed to his religion and has respect for all people. Yes -- he may get a little carried away -- but he does listen when someone tells him what he is doing is offensive. Case in point; the incident with Vent -- he had no idea that what he was doing was bothering other people -- when he was told to stop it, because it was bothersome -- he stopped and never did it again. By the way he was not the only one doing it. When people speak of numerous chances -- I can only recall one as a non-MOB and one as a MOB Regs -- if there are more please let me know.

As far as Silver is concerned -- maybe he did call my son an A-hole and I would expect nothing less from him -- he tells you how it is, but unlike most people he took the time to get to know him and now they are friends.

The gay issue has no relevance -- other than Major Havoc has a problem with it -- is there something you have to tell us Major? Marine has tolerance for all ways of life and doesn't judge anyone. As a matter of fact he has three Aunts that live the gay lifestyle and he loves them all.

From all of the problems that are being brought up -- I can see one commonality -- a severe lack of communication. I suggest that we hire a clan therapist and work out our problems. Since playing on this server for over a year -- I have not met any MOB that I have not liked on a one to one basis -- but you put everyone together and the wheels fall off..

MT

I don't think anyone is wondering that...



Drugs? Irrelevant
Swear? Bullshit.

Just one example (there are more): http://www.mobclan.com/forums/upload/index...pe=post&id=2538



Think again; Major Havoc is not the only one that has a problem with it. His actions (including this incident) reflected poorly on MOB, and as a result a poll was put up where 90 % of the voters had a problem with it.

BANNED! end this thread! let them go .

Awesome thread. Thanks for the read!

Uh, no. Not really. I wasn't even going to reply to this thread until you lied. You said the name change was just some innocent pre-adolescent fun when, in fact, it was done while IP was online at the same time and clearly a malicious thing to do. Hopefully lessons have been learned here.

Is this still going on?

My god let it go!!!

Please end this or I will be forced to bring in the big guns, by that I mean I will start an entirely different conversation that is off topic, with Undead, about the subtleties of southern tree arangment on rooftops.

DONT make me do that.

Undead will just go on and on and on and on.

he had all kinds of trees on his roof.

Btw, we are all a little gay. I am just gay for women and beer.

Did I tell you I was thinking about buying a boat?

thank you flat,ill start by saying that a tree arangement on a roof is NOT an easy thing to do! first -you must have wind if its not more than 80 mph pack your tools and go home! second- you must have at least 2 foot of rain pryor to the wind its as simple as making a salad people! third - ***AND MOST IMPORTANT*

is timing-it must be before 9am in the morning and A:while your sleeping,or B:PLAYING YOUR FAVORITE VIDEO GAME-in my case ,i chose B my wife chose A.this makes the whole tree arrangement process fun.

1-power goes out-ooooh!

2-hearing large crackling-saying oh wtf -and actually wrting it in the b/a server you were on,lol

3-money shot- massive crash everyone in house runnig while screaming !

4-thanking that you still alive or not under rubble -but pissed because you had a awesome kdr that a.m.(but never brought that up with the wife)

all steps 1 thru 4 must be performed within 15 minutes of each other or itll all be wrong-feel free to review as needed!

I feel a fresh breeze in here! Viola! Another benefit of trees on your roof!!!!

Thank you, kind gentlemen for that respite from the storm.

Undead I am totally confused with your post. Please someone inform me with what the heck you are talking about.

I couldn't find his amazing picture of the outside of the house, but here is the thread you need to read.

How does the power go out, but then in step 2 you type in "wtf" in the b/a server?

LIES! ALL LIES!

MoD