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thought id post my opinion on bonds breaking the record. although ive never liked the guy ,as well as most , you have to give him credit . if you look at the link below at his career stats ,from 86 to 2000 (14 years) this guy was a slim ,dble ,trple ,bunt and steal guy who was a second generation player and dominated the league .



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds#Career_statistics



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds#Bonds_on_Bonds



the steroids era has really given the amarican pastime a black eye imo . most say that through out baseballs history that players have used other drugs to play through injury or get that extra edge but i think theres a huge difference between steroids and uppers. another thing to look at is the fact steroids have been around since 1930 and didnt start testing atheletes till the 60s (i think) so whos to say other greats didnt use them?since the senate hearings the majority of players caught have been pitchers ,with the exception of rafeal palmarro ,if some one has that stat id be interested in seeing it.



my hats off to a guy ,who ive always disliked mostly because of his attitude (hes no cal ripken) but has dominated this game of baseball and HAS to go down as one of the best players of all time. was glad i got to see it!

Well thats good he broke the record.....wow.....



He used steroids to get so big and started to hit homers like mad, but i think in other ways it was good for baseball cause of all the lock outs they had, and baseball needed something to make the fans happy.

I still feel bad for the old guys like roger maris an hank arron.the 3 guys who got more than 61 homeruns in a season have been accused of steriods or cork sammy, mark an barry.records dont stand for over 30 years an than start getting crushed.bonds average a homerun every 20 at bats with the pirates in 7 years.than a homerun every 10 at bats with the giants in 15 years.not to mention 75 pounds of bulk i think he might be hacking.

I have got to say that I have no respect at all for Bonds. He played for many years and was no where near the Batting average or Home Run total that he has now compared with him in his early career. No-one increases this much in his average and home runs in his later years without using some sort of performance inhancing drugs. He is a complete disgrace to baseball. Just as if a hacker was to have some sort of kills to death ratio or total kills high in a game due to his hack.

We have the ability to perform a blood test to find out if he was on it, why not insist that anyone that wants to play in major league baseball and make the millions of dollars that they are making MUST take this test at least twice a year???? Is it too much to ask for???? Otherwise, have them find another way to earn a living like the rest of us. Shit, if someone asked me to give a blood test to earn millions each year I would ask them 1 pint or 2?

theres no doubt he WAS on roids ,half the league was as well. lets take the world series with the diamondbacks and yanks ,the big unit (randy johnson )and curt shilling both pitched on barley any rest ,i believe randy pitched 3 games and curt 2 games ,curt did this later with the sox aka bloody sock. this is actually unheard of in baseball , both players played as well as sosa the year after the senate hearings and you dont hear much from them these days as they are mediocre players . shil actually said a bunch of shit about guys being pussies who take the roids-was waiting for someone to call him out,lol.



the fact that not many writers give ANY ball player in the "steroid era" any credit and alot want the records taken away is the black eye im taking about. what about cal ripken?tony gwynn? ricky henderson?roger clemens? maddox,glavine,smoltz ? a rod isnt any bigger (except his contract) and yet hes ALMOST where bonds is.all these guys have a question mark next to them in the hall but i think these are the ones who had a work ethic.



what i posted before was the years 1986 to 2000 for barry bonds who was a skinny second gen player who was not on roids (i dont think) and who dominated the league. thats 14 years of stealing bases ,rounding out triples and doubles an rbi king. im sure when he realized he had a shot at hanks record thats when the juice came in and why not if %50 to %70 of the rest of the league is doing it,hell i wouldnt even put it past the commisioner looking the other way because mark and sammy brought baseball back-if you remember.



if your a baseball fan such as my self , baseballs in trouble so keep in mind that while attendance is down at almost every park excluding a few ,for a mediocre player , as of 07 ,is signing 100 mil contracts. wait till this year when theres like 15 major players as free agents its going to screw things up big. i took my 2 year old to the park and between 2 cheapy tickets ,parking,2 hotdags ,2 cokes ,bag of peanuts and a shirt------$135.00 ,good thing i left my wife home . the stadium (marlins) was a 1/4 full. about 3000 people.

Well 135.00 isnt to bad for a baseball game,

try taking your kid to a hockey game at the ACC in Toronto lol

135.00 is like the aveage ticket price for one person



But i agree with what you posted Undead

MLB has known about rampant roid and drug use for ages. The MLB decided to turn a blind eye on this. They openly encouraged it's use in the form of pathetic penalties if someone was caught. I still remeber Selig show casing his "very tough" overhaul of the drug policy a few years ago. The seventh offense constituted a ban. The SEVENTH!!! What a joke.No wonder Conress wanted to step in.

That's why I stopped following baseball several years ago. The sport is in total ruin for a true ball fan.

May it RIP.

Have you guys noticed the editorials about Bonds breaking the record? Nobody has come out and said, "he doesn't use steroids" they are just talking about how he's a great player even though he's using roids. That's messed up. I don't know why they can be so hard on some athletes, let's say for betting on a game. They say that it ruined the integrity of the sport. Hello? So you factor in the steroids and then the elbow HR swinging brace... wtf? With this philosophy, hockey goalies should be able to wear pads of any size and place pieces of concrete in front of their net to where they'd like. I remember when Patrick Roy broke a few records and Glen Hall (and a few others) were talking about how an asterisk should be by his name because of the equipment changes and enlargements over the years. I thought they kind of had a point, but at the same time, the game is so much faster than it was...even 20 years ago. Shit, I remember watching ESPN classic of Roy's rookie season in the playoffs and the game seemed really really slow. A lot slower than I remember watching it back in the day. Anyway, I'm off subject. I think they should actually test Bonds a few times and if he tests positive for steroids, strip him of his record. It's pretty obvious when a guy is good... or above average in his early and mid carreer, but then blossoms in his twilight years and becomes HR champion. Anyone who watches any sport will realize that most players in their later years aren't contributing in that way, especially baseball. God... I can picture it now... 10 years from now, Bonds will write a book and come forward about taking steroids. He'll be on every talk show. Scratch that, the record will be broken in a few years and hopefully he won't be remembered as a HR champion.

What people don't realize is that roids dont suddenly make you magical if you have ever played serious baseball you know how hard it is to hit a homerun. If you just followed Bonds since he broke the top 10 list for HR's please don't talk




(as you can tell I don't like people who bash bonds)

Yes, I agree that it still takes talent to hit the ball and to hit it well. I'm not saying that Bonds isn't a great player. I think McGuire was a great player when he was thin and in Oakland at the start of his career. Bonds was still a good, above-average player in Pittsburgh. I just think it's odd how he blossomed into a totally different player in the twilight of his career. BTW, still not seeing anyone say that he doesn't do steroids.

pez, he WAS on steroids ,theres no question what so ever . this is the reason alot of the players were hurt most of the next season or didnt perform well after the senate hearings .ill list them if you want ,two of which would be giambi and sosa.they test these guys often ,infact i believe they hired the olympic testers for the job and ill bet bonds is tested more than most.



bonds knows what happend to palmiero (the only hitter) when he got caught right after he hit his 3000 hit ,it basicly made him the league baffoon and made his record a joke !coming from a fan of his since i was young i was upset as well being there were 9 pitchers caught prior to palmiero and the only news it got was across the bottom of the tv screen during other games ,the media was foaming at the mouth for a hitter to get caught and still are waiting for the bonds story. this is why bonds stayed out of baseball with the "knee" injury to train and get back intoshape,he wouldve broke this record 2 years ago if he was still on the stuff.



ill say this for roids,a guy like me who takes a cycle and tries to hit a ball its not going to work.if you take an ATHELETE whos been playing a game since he was 2 and put him on roids the game will be real slow to him. right now the pitchers are taking human growth hormone but they dont test for that. would it help a batter ? maybe a little but its mostly a recovery thing.

OMG, are you serious?? Just to make it clear before I make a statement here, I have been following baseball very closely since 1986. Thats when I truely was a fan of baseball. Back when Strawberry and Gooden were having their drug problems, lol. When you take a player that has good hand eye coordination, and that would probably made it into the hall of fame someday based on his already good stats he was providing through his career and then you give him performance inhancing drugs, you make a monster.

Bonds is a piece of trash. He cheated to get better in his sport. Anyone that thinks otherwise, I feel really bad for them as they have issues of their own.

lol, nothing- i still to this day see strawberry and his drugged out self here in fort lauderdale on a typical friday night .



anyway i do have to back triggerhappy up with this , wether or not you like him ,you still have to give the guy credit.if barry bonds never broke hanks record ,he would still be a shoe in for the hall based on his perfomance since 1986. this coming from a guy who thinks hes a real jerk and should be more like tony gwynn! heres some pics.
i believe in 2000 is when the doping started or just prior. theres no way he was doing it in between 86 and 93 no way!


the first one is 1993 the second is 2000. then the bottom 2 are 1986. plus add inthe guys getting old as well.

I didnt say that he wasnt a good player before the roids. He was, and probably would have made it in anyways. What Im saying is that It is disgusting that he had to cheat and use these drugs to accomplish the most prized record in baseball. For that reason alone, I will always have no respect for this guy. Just as if someone would have caught a MOB great player if not our best player cheating. I would have no respect for that player. Have any of you seen the movie Mr. 3000? This reminds me of Bonds, but add the roids to the picture.

i think that was made about him ,lol.very similar.

Good analogy Nothing. If a team member was good, but suddenly got better and ruled the servers because he was cheating... is it okay? Sure, you could say there were other people cheating so it's okay that the team member was cheating. There was talent to begin with, but once the player started using something to lopside the competition it's wrong.

here's my 2 cents on Bonds...like Undead said, from 1986-2000 the guy was an extra base guy, for that matter an on base guy...he gets on first he will steal second !! i mean he was a 30-30 guy, meaning he would steal 30 bases in a year as well as hitting 30 HR's !! but of course outta no where the guy blows up and puts on like 100 lbs. of muscle !! you dont just do that over the off season...but trigga was also right, even if the guy did take roids that dont swing the bat for ya, you still have to put the bat on the ball...as much as i thought he took roids and as mad as i was when i figured he would break the record...the guy is a hall of famer !! i dont care for the guy that much but even if you take out the past few years of his career, the guy was still an amazing baseball player !!

it was a good analogy nothing but there are somethings wrong with it. For example, if someone is using a wall hack they can obviously see where the person they are trying to shoot is. roids are not gonna help you decide what pitch is going to be thrown. And if you got a good pitcher onthe mound its a lot hard than it looks on TV. If a person is using a no-recoil hax they can spray and pray like no other . In baseball you get one swing of the bat and thats it. its like using the shottie and doing a jumping spin and tring to hit someone on the other side of the map.

No they won't, but if you take an above average hitter and put some muscle on him, he is going to start hitting more homeruns. Just think of all the balls he might of hit that only needed 10-20 more feet to go over. Having that extra muscle is definately going to help him hit it that extra little bit. It's not that hard to understand.

BarryBon.jpg



now I GOT PROOF

Click to view attachmentnow, I got proof!

lolz!

How many pitchers throwing to Barry were using steroids?
My guess is a lot.

Its probably a wash.

Maybe some pitchers, but is it fair when he's going up vs non-steroid pitchers? I don't think it's a wash. What about all the teams that he hit in RBIs or HRs and they lost by a point or two? It could've killed their playoff chances, etc. Personally, I think it ruins the game. The fact that the arguement now is, many players use steroids so it's wash is interesting cause now it's becoming obvious that the sport isn't worth watching. Records aren't worth keeping. The players aren't worth following. It's sad for the guys that aren't using steroids, that their league/team is now blemished by those who are using. So people like me aren't going to follow the sport or go to game now because of the bad apples. It's just a shame.

a corked bat is gonna make the ball go further than a person on steroids

But corked bats don't help you decide what pitch is going to be thrown. Sound familiar? You give a corked bat to a shitty hitter, it won't make much of a difference. You give the bat to a good hitter, it's going to make a difference. If you are already a good hitter, all of a sudden being able to bench/curl/tricept pushdown/etc 50-80 lbs more is going to make a difference in how far that ball goes.

NOW THERES THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION! being more pitchers have ACTUALLY been caught then hitters. it has put every ball players career stats in jeaprody imo . i guess they all didnt think about the recourse of if the roids were taken away? now the bar is set ,where are all the 40 + hr hitters now?



its in all sports boys and girls ,nfl (huge) ,nba ,hockey ,hell it was in horse racing for a long time lol.



i think the fact no one has ever liked barry bonds is why theres so many people yelling cheater! i talk with a guy all the time who works for mlb ,i also have the umps in when they do marlins games. this guy made a valid point and it made me think ,take demaggio or maris for instance-how do you know they didnt take the stuff? it was easily attainable in their eras and didnt check for it. henry aaron ,what about him?

please dont say because they werent bigger either.

Think about this for a min.

Pitchers on Roids = faster fastballs
Pitchers on Roids = more torque on Curve balls


Home Run Hitters on Roids enjoy a faster fastball because the faster the pitch, the farther the ball is carrying. It is not a wash, it only helps the fact that the sport is so far gone that we have people that are completely blind to the issue and think its a wash for people to cheat because the other guys are cheating. Where is our morals? Do we want to reward these guys with bigger paychecks because they are cheating and taking Drugs? What kind of message do you think the teenagers are getting from this??? hmmmm. Bonds is taking Roids, Bonds is knocking the cover off the ball, Bonds is getting paid giant dollars. hmmm, maybe I should try this and try to get millions. This is the problem. I could care less about Bonds himself. I worry about what its doing to the game and the kids that look up to these guys.

nononononononononono ! pitchers use roids %100 for rehabilatation %100 . you throw 107 pitches 90 +mph and tell me how you feel (in shape or not) the next day or 3 days later. some of these guys (big unit and shilling) were pitching (while in late 30s) on 2 or 3 days rest ,impossible!!

let me tell ya , the youth doesn't look up to much of anything any more...we're quite pathetic...

Mythbusters showed that corked bats are a psycological advantage at best. The ball actually loses velocity after hitting the bat. The bat appears lighter and would feel to have more spring to it, but its mass does not allow the ball to be propelled as far... That is what they said, and they rule.

Steroids not only increase muscular strength, but they enhance fast muscle twitch cells. Sure they are used legally for rehab in many areas. Sure they are used NOW by professional athletes. Sure they make your balls smaller. My buddy played for the orioles. He pointed out the same thing that BLK did earlier. Flyouts to center are not flyouts with a muscular advantage, they are dingers. The funniest thing of all of thie, is the 2001 chase. All of the big hitters were monsters. Mcguire, Sosa, and of course bonds. They were all in hot water, and all appeared to be guilty. None of them have really recovered from their testimonies. Mcguire retires, sosa leaves my cubs after a dismal year, goes and plays like crap in Bmore, and ends up in texas doing something. My wife met Bonds in pittsburgh. The reason I don't like him, and dont care about his record, is because she said he was a shitty man and was rude to everyone. To me, that is the bottom line.

I wonder which hat they will put in the hall of fame for him, the size 7, 7.5, or bloated steroid stained 8.

Thanks F lat, I was just going to post that.

Someone said that steroids had ruined baseball (Pez I think) if not for steroids most of us would have quit watching baseball altogether after the 1994 strike. It was the HR chase that drew most of us back to watching baseball. So say what you want but it actually SAVED baseball for a time. And to say Barry Bonds was not a home run hitter is a joke. He routinely hit 30+ HR's and even joined the 40-40 club before he hit the roids in 98. I argue that had he hit 53 HR's instead of 73 we wouldn't be placing him under the finest of microscopes. I'm not saying that he didn't use Roids but to say his numbers jumped up out of sight isn't true. He had ONE year where he went nuts and the other three around it were VERY good years for him but not out of line with the other seasons he had pre juice.

I believe I also saw an interview where Mr. Squeaky Clean Aaron used amphetimines when he played as well. Were they illegal at the time? No. Did they give him an advantage Bond's doesn't have? Yes. To me everything is relative. Did Bond's cheat? I say no as baseball didn't even bother to have rules against it or test for it. It is what it is but don't throw stones at him for doing what guys of other era's did as well. Don't forget Bond's won THREE MVP awards before he got to San Fran. Do you know how many other players have ever won THREE? I'll help you out. None. Zilch. Nada. He was far more than just a very good player. He was possibly the best baseball player we've ever seen BEFORE he hit the roids.... I don't care for him either but to see him be drilled like he has when he's one of probably thousands who did it as well is nuts to me....

To be honest, it wasn't that HR chase that drew me back after the strike. It was Ripken. I live in the DC area and up till 2 years ago, we hadn't had a team in DC since the Senators left in the early 70's so most people in the DC area rooted for the Orioles. Ripken was an all-class, all-star player and was a great player to watch and admire. He had a great work ethic and is the same reason I admire Favre on the football side. He might not have been the best player of all time but he was a great player to follow and get inspiration from.

I dont care that they have attracted more fans because of the long ball. Baseball was, is now and always will be a favorite sport to me. Only second to Football of coarse, but still. The game was fine before McGwire and Sosa broke the single season records. It only drew more attention. I hardly believe that baseball was in trouble and they saved it by becoming drug users.


And I seen someones comment that the kids dont look up to these guys. They dont look up to them in the way your thinking. They look up to them because of the fame and fortune they are making and are considering the options of using drugs to get there. If the MLB allows it to go on, why would the kids these days not use?

Destruction Of National Pastime Given Two-Minute Standing Ovation

Funny article

In the gaming community he would be a hacker that never got caught. Everyone says he hacks but no proof. We see him in spectate and seems a lil odd but nothing 2 extreme.


HE IS A HACKING SON OF A *****. Thats pretty much it.

Curt Schilling has an Aimbot.

HE IS STILL A CLASS ACT IN BASEBALL! ive met him about 30 times ,hell i took a drunken piss by his pool at a hunt cup one year,lol! seriously though ,for me baseball never went anywhere and the roid heads only screwed the game up imo . since i was a kid i mowed al bumby and rich baurs lawn and played baseball with tippy martinez son so i got a chance to meet alot of the os players. cal ripken ,although part of the roid era and has been questiond by the media,has always been one of my idols since i was a kid . trigger just made a valid point,who do the kids look up to in sports now? no one! this is why baseball is suffering . when i was a kid i collected cards of the players i thought were all class ,not strawberry or mcquire (excuse the sp) i have every card of cal ripken ,every one ,infact i have probably %90 of every oriole since 1982 . tony gwynn as well . roids just gave everyone a quick fix ,it didnt SAVE baseball it ruined it for an entire generation of children. i loved it when the florida marlins beat the yankees in the ws . they were a small payroll team that used the fundementals of baseball ,not roids,not money but fun!

I LOVE YOU!



and pez, heres a quote from that article..."Celebrations broke out throughout AT&T Park and thousands of flashbulbs went off as Bonds took his ceremonial trip around the bases, his arms raised in a jubilant gesture of triumph" no matter how much you hate the guy the people still cheer, and fight like Mike Vick's dogs for the baseball. everyone talks about what they would have done with the ball if they caught it. No matter how much you argue now you can't deny that people were excited to see it happen.


And spec! come on man, fellow baseball player, you know how hard it is to hit a home run, even with steriods doing it 700+ times is damn amazing no matter how you look at it.


and on a personal note I think that 2 of the greatest (not saying the greatest overall) players were Ripken Jr. and Pete Rose

Pete rose was the most dominating player of his time,bar none! if he would just shut the hell up he would get into the hall.

I just can not bring myself to respect a player that uses steroids. I know that going to leave a slim list..but in my books If they give this to Bonds they should let pete Rose back for betting. Its cheating either way..Just My opinion. Guys like this ruin sports and give the kids a bad role model.

pete rose should have been in the Hall of Fame regardless of the betting crap...its totally lame...


and also people who ever said Barry Bonds was all about getting into the HAll of Fame, as far as i know it was about the Home Run record...

They're already saying he's going to the HOF, automatically. I agree, they should let Rose in. His betting happened after his superb preformance as a player.

betting in major league baseball is a big nono since the black sox . i actually like the fact they are so strict with it because baseball is one of the games YOU DONT see that is fixed,almost impossible. pete rose just cant stfu ,everytime he seems to be making progress he puts his foot in his mouth.he seems to believe that he BELONGS in the hall or that they owe him. all i have to say is one name pete, shoeless joe jackson.

his betting on baseball was also after his playing days...it's understandable but still i hate it

I'm not saying that I agree with or condone betting on your team or other team in sports.... it's wrong. But if they're going to let players that are breaking other rules into the HoF, then I'm all for Pete Rose going in. And like a few have stated, for his excellence as a player, not a betting coach. It's like saying OJ wasn't a good running back because he killed people years later.

were they illegal, and what was the punishment for use during the time he was using "steroid laden salves" on his body? They still do not warrant a full season suspension do they? What is the punishment now? What day is it? What is that smell? who is that?