I guess its going to have to be one of those I told you so things. Yes both sides have the same weapons, but if its being sniped on the sides, if you try to get those that are sniping, once you peep your head around the corner, your dead, no chance. Im only posting my opinions here. I am not trying to win anyone over. If we take away or weaken the Druganov, it will be a complete snipe fest. Lets all watch and see. I will keep these posts for future reference, lol.

It's already a complete snipefest. There will always be sniping but the Drag makes it alot easier to snipe. I was just playing earlier and between you, Ouch, Cuda and Shadow it was hard to get out of the Russian village. You were all sniping using Drags. That gun not being full auto would force people to use bolt action type sniper rifles or machine guns.

Having a bunch of snipers on your team is not an advantage unless their sniper rifles are full auto. As a Russian on the old Barb I have bashed 3 or 4 snipers in a row sniping from the Russian 2 back towards the village.

Yeah, that's where you lose me Nothing. It's already a snipfest. What do you think you're doing on peeking over those hills while looking down a scope?


Another possible thought. Create another Barb MWBA server with a "version 2.0" MW on it (I know Steel's mod are beyond that number, but you get the drift LOL), and incorperate some of these ideas and let them run side by side. After all, a lot of nights the current server is maxed out. For a while we could actually probably support two, but maybe make some major changes on the second one to change the gameplay.

It'd be awesome if Steel had any interest in doing this. she'd be competing with herself in some respects, but it would be a real cool "test" of these theories about whether the mod like it is would be most popular, or making chnges to help the tanks and reduce the Draganov-fest would win out. You still reading Steel? any interest, or is it too much work?

Anyway, just as a historical note, MOB did used to run two Barb servers side-by-side that were rocking, a time-limited one and a no-time-limit one.

I still think there will be more sniping than there is now with the way the scoped rifles are. No one will advance at all. The Druganov is the advancing weapon.

Can we put a schmeisser-MP40 in this new mod? LOL - I'm horrid with these new weapons

I agree 90 seconds is good.

Personally I think this will evolve if we don't change anything. Not that I'm against changeing anything, but even with 90% of the people using Drags the game isn't being played to it's fullest potential.

What pisses me off the most (and makes me like the anti-camper mod) is my team members who are camping a spot and sniping, so I think I'm ok to run across an area. Well, the problem is those snipers are watching ONE SPOT. They are waiting for a guy to come across a well travelled spot, not looking for any guy, or even a general area. So I think a guy has my back only to be shot seconds after moving past his sniper nest.
My other beef is lack of protection for tanks. I love the weapons in the mod. I love that the rpg makes me run superfast. To me it makes a huge difference, because you can get back in the action so quick after being killed. So it becomes more important for infantry to protect tanks. But thats not what the infantry are doing most times. It's like they see an enemy infantry going after a tank so it gives them more time to maneuver themselves, or sprint past that point to infiltrate something else, or they just weren't watching the tank because they are focussed on a single path where an enemy infantry is likely to show up in the next 2 minutes.
This isn't always fun, but I think over time this mod on barb will evolve. I think in a few months, with few changes to the mod, the regular players will understand that not only does the game move better when certain bases are taken out in a certain order, but you need to do x, y and z to give you a better chance at winning.

I think the best example of this is comparing MW Barb to regular Barb. In regular Barb, in a pub server, it's harder for a team to hold the middle. In MW Barb, when a team is down to one base, many start to camp. In regular Barb this isn't too much of a problem as the few offensive guys can usually dodge and weave their way to an under protected base becuase so many are attacking. But in MW they don't fully attack. They sit back and snipe you as you enter the mid ground. So it is of vital importance in MW that if you are losing, you HAVE to control the mid ground. You can not attack until you control the mid ground. If you want to camp and you are losing, pick a mid ground spot.

Most people haven't figured this out yet. They will in time. Once that happens the dynamic of the game will change and we may not even care so much about the Drag.

Can you use this

What frustrates me is when I am down to one base (say R3), and the enemy stops attacking to plant.

The line up on the hill and snipe people as they spawn and don't come into the village.

Jeez, come get my base. I haven't got all day!!

I've played whole games like that. Got R2 and R1 blown early, thought the game would be over quick, then watch these guys snipe from the hill and no one with the courage to try and get to the base. I'm sure a couple were trying, but not nearly enough. We would hold them off all game, even while being sniped 100's of times in our spawn. It was weird. Seemingly dominated, but not once actually did they threaten to plant.

I didn't notice much diff after the changes either. Steel is it possible to limit the RPG to 1 round and only 1 round carried at a time and not up to 3 slots plus 1 in the barrel? As well reduce the Drag bullets maybe down to 30 or 40 rounds total?

With less rounds it is basically a sniper as you can't just put it in full auto and let um rip with 20 in the clip.

The range and acuracy of the Drag is incredible I can come around the corner at G1 (being russian) and snip guys running from the German back spawn up to the middle pak then proceed on. In the old barb it was very hard to make a shot like that

With a weakend RPG and only 1 shot they will typically be used for running. You can't fire 3 rounds at a base (instead of using tanks at R1) and you can't destroy a tank with 1 shot which is great. I have yet to see a tank destroyed with a satchel in MOW


If you only have a few rounds in the Drag, once they are gone you can't just sit there you are going to have to go and try to plant a base or something with only a Mac-10.

Its obvious that so many are against the Druganov, why not take it out completely for a trial. See what happens?

What will happen is that all the point-whore noobs will go away and there will be many more competitive matches with regard to blowing up bases.

How do you know? You have not seen this mod being played without it yet. I think that the "next" weapon of choice will be a scoped rifle. All snipers! Will have even less people planting bases and not many using paks. Just my thoughts though. I would like to see it since so many are against the Druganov though. No matter what anyone does to this mod, there will always be much more sniping, period. Those that think differently, are wishfully thinking.



Weapon Kills+ Deaths Suicides Eff % Hits Shots Misses Acc %
Ppsh 201 94 0 68.14 319 319 0 100.00
Pak45 turret 55 2 0 96.49 67 67 0 100.00
Springfield 2 29 0 0 100.00 29 29 0 100.00


Above is my stats for the top 3 weapons I have used in the last week. Below is MOD's top 3. I see myself using weapons more than just the Druganov more than you have MOD. I see this with many players, not all, but many. How can you complain if your doing it yourself? And please dont use the excuse that everyone else is so you are. Its lame and we should lead by example, not be part of the problem your complaining about. I really think most use it because its a great weapon. Its unrealistic so everyone likes to talk negative about it, but the stats show they are using it all the time. Hypocrisy?

Weapon Kills+ Deaths Suicides Eff % Hits Shots Misses Acc %
Ppsh 1810 982 0 64.83 2344 2344 0 100.00
Tt33 433 247 0 63.68 701 701 0 100.00
Bazooka 2 229 33 4 87.40 609 609 0 100.00

Well for onething i dont use the Druganov, so that puts me out of the Hypocrisy thingy.

Nothing i think your the King of the Druganov...dont take this the wrong way, just i cant see you useing nothing eles.

Hey Barkman,

I know you always use a rifle. Just like a few others. Thats why I said not all but many. And dont get me wrong, I do use the Druganov mostly. I posted the stats of it. I am just pointing out that many that are complaining about it are ones that use it a ton as well. They even use it more than I do. Thats my point. I use it because its a great weapon. I say its completely fine since anyone can use it. But I think that those that dont use it are upset that their weapon they like is overpowered by those that use it. I guess im in the minority though.

Please, please, please......Nothing you are an excellent player just to have confirmed that (in any mod) everybody knows. So you don't have to make a defending speech out of this. However you are the one who always says "don't take this personally" so please don't. This thread is about how to improve gameplay in a general matter - not a personal statistic review. I think MoD is just adapting to the game (I'm sure he can speak for his own ), and even you must admit that it must be a character strength if MoD insist of tuning down a weapon he's using a lot......Also read Abuse's posts which is indeed very relevant. Mod (and everybody else) uses Dragunov cause it's too superior compared to the other weapons.... The thing is that you think it's completely ok the way it is now, and I personally disagree. It's just input to the gameplay. I guess Steel has the final word anyhow.

"AND THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS"

The exact same way you know what's going to happen next...I don't. But I have a better leg to stand on than you. Why, exactly, would people switch to a single-shot sniper rifle when it's pretty difficult to hit a fast moving target (i.e., players running with an RPG)? Aside from that, the enemy can use that speed to get right on top of you and gun you down when you don't have the luxury of using the sniper rifle as an assault weapon (like most use the Noobanov)?

And why, exactly, on the original Barbarossa did MOST people NOT use a sniper rifle? Wouldn't it stand to reason, based on what you think, that most players would be using a sniper rifle there? But they don't.

I don't care how powerful the scope is, it's still very difficult to hit people while they're running with that RPG with a single-shot sniper rifle.

I dont take this personally at all. I just say it how I feel it. I see some complaining about a weapon that they use, I see that differently than you do I guess. They just dont go well together in my book. Complain about something, but use it anyways. Im sure Steel will take all of what everyone is saying and use it to what she thinks will work well for the server.

These scoped rifles are much different and more powerful than the old barb. I guess the only way to see it is when its done. I really do hope that Steel does tone the Druganov down or take it out completely just so I can prove my point here. Next complaint will be to tone down the other rifles. Thats why I say leave it. But im all out of breath on the issue. I voiced my opinion as much as I can. Whatever anyone says, it will not convince me otherwise. We will have to see it when it is changed.

The sniper rifles on the MW servers are different (less sway and recoil) but that doesnt neccessarily make them better or more powerful. Yes some have a 3X zoom but that is more of handicap because you have a limited view when you are zoomed in so far. Only advantage with a zoom that deep is to spawn kill which happens anyway.

No, not hypocrisy. I said it Nothing, using any other weapon than the Draganov is handicapping oneself. I don't like handicapping myself. I generally don't call it a Noobanov much either. and I clearly state it is the game's premier weapon. But I also state that I find it has changed the gameplay in a way I don't like. I don't like there's no variety of weapons people choose, except for a select few who are really handicapping themselves. I don't like that tanks are useless.

Perhaps the stat you need to check is how much I played lately, compared to the old Barb. You might consider me a hypocrite if I was playing as much or more then ever while complaining about the balance. You will not find that the case.

Listen, we all have our own opinions on balance, enjoyment, etc. I was just giving mine. I use the Draganov, becaue IMO, there' s no choice. Use it or die. Join the rapid-fire sniper fest. Or don't play. I've played a lot less lately. That's life I guess. We all move on.

MOD

p.s. ...and Nothing, the draganov IS a SNIPER rifle!!!!! I remain baffled by the statement if we remove it it will become a "sniper-fest". Umm, hello! Draganov = Rapid-fire sniper rifle, 10X zoom, now weapon sway, no barrel bounce when shooting and again it's a SNIPER RIFLE SNIPER RIFLE SNIPER RIFLE!

Actually the stats you listed are your weekly and MoD's 90 day.
Your weekly PPSH kills were 201. MoD's 14.
Your 90day PPSH 4,411 MoD's 1,810

Using weapons other than the Drag? Your next weapon other than tank, PAK, nades or MAC ....

Springfield 2 - 55 kills

Top 4 most kill with PPSH in 90 days
TWOBIT 6,576
Shadow 4,677
TWOBIT(again) 4,447
Nothing 4,411

Honestly its obvious why you don't want it messed with. If you're not in a tank or heaving nades you're using the Drag.

Tried a few of the other weapons out tonight outside of the Springfield and Dragunov.

Their are a few really kickin weapons avaliable and removing the Dragunov or severly detuning it would really open the others weapons. Ultimately any of the other scoped assult rifles and machine guns dont come close to matching the Drag as far as combined stopping power, range, firing rate and accuracy and so as it has been said before you would be a fool to enter the map with any other weapon.

Forcing people to leave their beloved Dragunov would face some recoil with the gamers against MOW. However from the heated dicussions that have been repeated over the past number of months, it is possiable that it is better left in the TDM arena and outside BAS.

Of course any of you that I have played against know I am slighted in this direction since of the 19,000 kills TWOBIT, Shadow and Nothing have with the Drag, about 2,000 of them have been on me. This may seem high for the amount that I play, but just to let you know I was no better on the original Barrbarosa server.

I play with the Camo sniper rifle (not sure the name) but the sigle shot bolt action is hard to kill someone when they are at a full on sprint.

It is very good at killing people camped though

I've read the entire post and everyone has a lot of passion about this.
I think the game has changed largely due to the players playing now. I seem to recall when it first went online and it was mostly MOB & Regs playing it played more like regular base assault!

It's not my style of play, I was selfishly wishing it could be more of an in between the existing Barb and the new modern weapons.

After reading the entire thread, I say it goes back to the original design, ( It's very popular and why risk losing players for my selfishness??)
players like myself should try to revive the Old Barbarossa and Forest. I'll do my part by logging on at least a couple of times a week.

If we had room for another server, It would be interesting to see a middleground styling like a lot of the people are recomending. I.E. No Draganov, No full sprint, Weighting the Zookas or slower re-load, The return of a new bolt action with killer sights

We could make this server our experimental ground rather than messing with success.

Steel, as always your work is fantastic, you have created a hit and made (2) hugely popular servers!

Well I dont play much anymore either, but mostly because of my silly internet connection troubles.

But this is how I see it:

+ Tripwires are hilariously funny.

+ You can run from almost anywhere on the map to defuse a base. As Russian, I made it from G2 area back to defuse R1 without a motorized vehicle lol.

+ Pakwhores are limited.

+ The weapons are fun.

+ The server is always full.



- It's hardly Base Assault anymore - a lot of players completely ignore planting/defusing bases.

- The Draganov makes it nearly impossible to mount any sort of offensive attack for either team.

- Tanks are useless except for blowing bases from long range (for those who know how).

- Teamwork and cooperation have gone out the window.

- Most games end in a draw (2-1 or 2-2 etc). Hardly ever see 3 bases blown in Barb now.


Verdict: The Draganov needs to be toned down, and the tanks need to be more nimble.



Oh well, at least the server is always populated - so I guess a lot of people love it how it is.

Well said Cpt.Canuck! I agree with almost all of your points...



(For the record, I too am a Noobinov user and will continue to use it because it is the most dominant weapon available - I mean why show up to a gun fight with a baseball bat??)



...but it seems that the only way to win MOW BAS now is to have 3-6 players working together to plant and cover a base because:

(1) Tanks are Useless and cannot defend a plant

(2) Everyone can run to diffuse a plant from almost any part of the map

(3) You can pick off attackers from a long way off with the Noobinov, etc.



I have been in some games that only last 10 mins or less because one side coordinated and covered each plant and worked together. Yes, the temptation to snip and make it a TDM is great, but ultimately, I believe that this MOW BAS will prove to most that the only way to win at BAS is to work together as a team.



Mess

I honestly believe the main problem for not being able to blow all 3 bases is because there are way too many noobs playing that dont care to do so. Its total chaos and not many are defending either. They are playing as if it were a TDM, not BAS. No strategy while playing. Thats the main reason all three bases have not been taken most of the time. I cant tell you how many times I have been frustrated to see myself and a few others playing defense while the entire team runs in a completely different direction of a planted base. Its not because of the weapon, its because of the type of players we have playing.

As far as the Druganov goes, yes its a shipers weapon, but I use it as a MG allot of the time. Not only as a snipers rifle. If we take that out, most will take a scoped rifle. It will take away of the sweeper-weapon used by many (the druganov) and more will camp with their rifles. Thats all im saying. So removing it will do two things, 1. Make more campers/snipers play. 2. Attract less people because allot play due to the weapon. I believe these to be true and this is my point from the start of me posting on here. If you think otherwise, please explain.


P.S.
If i picked the 90 day vs the week, it was an error on my part. I was just looking through stats of different players using the weapon.

Firstly, again the Draganov is a scoped rifle. The beauty of it is you get a scoped rifle but also a full automatic assult rifle, so there is no sacrifice. I think if it were to be removed or toned down, some would pick scoped rifles, and some would pick the other quite good assult rifles. The scoped guys would camp, like many do now, but with single shot action they won't be nearly as effective in "sniper" mode, and when the assult rifles guys get close, the advantage will change. In older modern weapons mod's, the AK47 was used tons by people, it was MORE popular than, say, the single shot camo sniper (which was still good too). The M16 varient was used a lot also. So no, I don't think there's evidence that all will become bolt-action snipers who never move forward.

Additionally, as stated, I would like to see a vastly toned down RP-7 as well. That would allow people to use tanks again, which again cuts down on snipers, because you can cross much of the map in the safety of a tank. One you close the gap even if you have to abandon the tank, guns like the AK-47 can be mean in mid-range battles, assuming you're enemy isn't able to just shoot from the hip with his incredibly accurate, powerful full-auto sniper rifle that is the Draganov.

I still hope that maybe we can start another server modified and then we'd se what's what. I'd be totally happy with aa BArb server with modified modern weapons that was half full of players who know how to play BA, versus playing on a full server stuffed with TDM players who are more intent on killing than on blowing or defending bases. If we had two servers that satisfied both crowds, that would be great IMO.

You have to ask yourself these questions: "Why are these 'noobs' here?" AND "Why weren't these 'noobs' on the old Barbarossa?"

I'll give you one guess...it stars with a D and ends with ragunov...

You exactly proved one of my points. That is why the traffic is so high, because of the Druganov. So, which is better for the clan as a whole? 1. less traffic, but more regulars that play and have solid BA games? or 2. have higher traffic and have more noobs trying to become MOB and then learn how to actually play BA games? Its hard for me to pick. I could be selfish and say I would rather play with a bunch of great team players and have great matches, but then again, I could choose the other way which means the clan would grow more, generate more money to pay for more servers and have more people that can possibly learn to play with a strategy.

Were in the learning phase of this territory. Its new to us. The MOD is great. Yes, there are certain aspects of the game that I miss from old barb, but thats the price to having a packed server every night. Do I hate to see noobs that kill be more often because of the Druganov, Yes. Do I enjoy using the powerful weapoin myself, Yes. Why change it? So I can have guys sit in tanks all day like before? Dont care for it really. Tanks should be used for Defense, not offense. How many times on old barb did you see a KV1 attacking G2 from actually being in front of it?

Once again, bottom line (see Kleerance's posts): This is BAS not TDM. These noobs that you think are the future of your clan are a bunch of point whores who just want to shoot 'em up (and if you think they'll join, you're fooling yourself). And when guys like me, MoD, Abuse, Clark and others try to blow bases by advancing along the map, they have easy targets. They think they're good at the game. But, as most of us know, they aren't good. They're just sniping with a weapon that is easy to use even for the noobest of noobs.

There's ALREADY a Modern Weapons TDM server at MOB. This is BAS...I suggest that Steel adds Barbarossa to the Custom Maps Modern Weapons server so all the Noobanov loving people can go over there and shoot each other silly. Then she can remove the Noobanov from the BAS server and we can play the way BAS players like.

This makes no sense. You say the Dragunov should'nt be changed. That tanks should be used for defense, not offense. When Germans are covering the village from R2 hill, center hill and R1 they are no different than the guys sitting in tanks at the top of the hill all day that you don't like. They sit at the top of the hill and kill anything they see with a lot more accuracy.

Also the KV1 rarely makes it G2 because it's slow.

Yes, they are similar, but at least they can be killed easier than a tank. With the way the panzers were, there was no way in hell anyone could shoot a tank on R2 or R1 from R3.

I said it before, I think its a bad move. But, I think we should do it to please most. After we get rid of it, then there will be another request in change to another weapon and another, until we are back to old barb but faster running. I really want the change so that many can see it from my point of view.

I believe I will be fine with our without it. I only think the grass is always greener on the other side. Once we get the change, will you all like it or not.

Again, why would you think that? It's used by 95% of the players for 95% of their kills. It's clear that it's the most dominant weapon on the server. If it were removed, people would have to learn some skills with other weapons that all have pluses and minuses to them. People will gravitate to the weapons that work best for their style of play or they'll not play anymore because the Noobanov was the only reason they were on the server in the first place...fortunately for them, they can go to Modern Weapons Custom Maps and Noobanov each other to kingdom come.

Im done with the discussion on this topic. I will wait until any changes are made to make any more comments. I just hope for the best.

Why dont we just that off the Dragunaov and see what happens?

I bet you more then half the players wont play lol

......or let us take away the stats for a month. Then maybe we can see some BAS gaming, and not just a lot of stats and ratio junkies waiting in the middle with the Noobanov.

I have to say I never thought I would play on that server, But now I am addicted to it. yes I use the noob gun and I will not use anything else< I go on servers to win not come in second place. If there was such a problem with the weapons then why is it that I have to use the PW almost evertime I get on. People love it I say leave it be, When we start loosing people I say that is when we should change it. I do agree with alot of all what people have posted. But I really dont like the campers being marked I dont think it is fair for those people, and it actually screws me up since I think those are chevrons over there heads and I think they are on my team. The big reason that alot of games are never won is that people always take out the easiest bases first, Then you are stuck with russian 3 last and there are russians all over it you will never get it armed and hold the plant. As I said before leave it be or I will be very sad.

Remove Statsand keep the Draguanov. If not let me be immortal

Wow,

So I guess I wasnt the only one that wanted to keep the Druganov, lol.


But I still say we should remove it for at least a month or so to let those that dont like it actually see what would happen.

Long Live the NOOBGUN

Exactly. Great gameplay, multitude of weapons on the map, tremendous variety of styles. New tactics. New winning stratagies. Good idea Nothing.

What do you consider "winning?"

I dont know if anyone else has noticed, but Im pretty sure they tweaked the Druganov down. Lately, when I shoot people that are at a distance, its like im using a rapid fire B-B gun. Takes a ton to kill someone, lol.

I've noticed that too, it's still pretty effective though, just not as much. I was also trying out another weapon(auto sniper of course) and it could easily be on par with the Dragunov if when in scope, would not have anything involving breathing so it stays perfectly still. If I'm correct, it's name began with like a number and then a "B", I want to say Buhr, but I just don't know. I'll be able to check Friday.

Man nothing,
you feeling ok>?

Sound or look familiar, lol? Hate to say I told you so, but....

At least we have it on another server and still have the BAS running with the mod.

Again, I would like to say thank you Steel for all your efforts to please the many members we have with different opinions. I know its hard and very time consuming.